Bax Symphony in F from Dutton

[Alan Howe]

First reaction - a great, big (78-minute), often glorious - mess. Bax isn't the tightest of symphonists in the first place - and this monster is miles too long. But some of the music is just gorgeous, as one might expect, especially the slow movement. Further reactions when I've listened to it properly. A labour of love for Martin Yates, no doubt.

[Mark Thomas]

I look forward to your second reactions. Mine will have to wait until after Father Christmas has visited.

[Alan Howe]

The problem as I listen is that I just don't know where I am in the piece. The musical landscape's gorgeous, but the road winds all over the place. If you're just along for the ride, fair enough; but if you need some idea of where you're going, oh dear. Of course, it's hard to discern the overall structure this early in one's experience of the work, but it's going to take a lot of work to do so, I feel.
Nevertheless, what a cornucopia of ideas there is in this piece. Can't help feeling that Bowen was ahead of him in the symphony stakes, though...

[Alan Howe]

Nope, sorry. This is just too loooooooooooooong. Great moments and some purple passages, but too much doodling in between. A curiosity only.

[Mark Thomas]

We'll, I'd always favour concision over "heavenly length", so I suspect that Bax's Nullte, despite its purple passages, will be filed in my catalogue under "interesting" rather than "favourite". Heigh ho. Still, best to wait and see I suppose.

[Alan Howe]

Trouble is, the length is far from heavenly. Frankly, I don't think Martin Yates' efforts have really been worth it. But others may disagree...

[sdtom]

I think I'll trust the moderator on this one and just pass.
Tom

[thalbergmad]

I posted my letter to Santa today, so I think I will have to buy this myself.

Normally, Bax is a must for me, but it would have to be a masterpiece to hold my attention for 78 minutes and i guess listening to it in shifts would be even worse.

Thal

[Alan Howe]

Bax is generally a must for me too. And don't let me put anyone off buying this new CD - after all, I bought it, and it's worth the money just to hear this early symphony.

[Jimfin]

Looking at the Bowen/Bax comparison, I'd agree that Bowen was probably ahead of Bax at this time, in terms of being able to write a concise, working structure, but Bax probably already had more interesting musical ideas, which meant he was later able to grow into undoubtedly a greater figure. Bowen no longer holds a lot of interest for me: I just don't find a lot of depth there, whereas Bax has depths beneath depths. I'm still finding new things in his music after 25 years of listening to it.

[musiclover]

I've listened to it three times now and although it is without doubt long I totally disagree with Alan. I think Bax must have been paying attention to Mahler, especially Symphony 6 and although he isn't experienced enough to entirely pull it off, there are an amazing number of ideas. Terribly easy to dismiss a work and much harder to start with the blank page like Bax did. Ultimately it is of course a pity that Bax didn't orchestrate the piece because he may have cut it and tightened it up, however I think Martin Yates has done an amazing job! the slow movement alone is worth the price of the CD. We should be mindful that although we have every right to comment and air our views it is Dutton who put their money whee their mouth is, Yates who must have worked his heart out and the RSNO who play like an orchestra possessed. I am hugely grateful to finally hear this piece and I think in times ahead many more people will agree with me. As for the Bowen comparison, sorry but Bowen is not in Bax's league in my opinion. Very nice music but nothing daring or bold or as accomplished as anything Bax wrote.

[Alan Howe]

Three comments:
1. Just because a lot of effort has been put into reconstructing and recording a piece of music it doesn't mean one should turn off one's critical faculties. I am grateful to Martin Yates and Dutton for what they have done, but this is no Elgar 3!
2. I can't hear any Mahler in Bax's symphony at all - even though we know Bax heard some of Mahler 6 while in Germany.
3. As far as the Bax-Bowen comparison is concerned, I was arguing (obviously very incoherently) that Bowen was ahead of Bax in the early years of the 20th century. Bowen's 2nd symphony is a far more mature and shapely work than this early ramble of a piece by Bax - glad though I am to have heard it. Of course, Bax went on to much greater things, symphonically speaking - but not until the 1920s.

[eschiss1]

Completed around 1907, Mahler 6 premiere May 27 1906- (in a festival with works by Bischoff (premiere of his 1st  symphony), others...) - interesting that Bax was there. I -really- need to read his autobiography (assuming it is as good as I gather it is. Maybe even if it isn't, given that his experience was wide and varied. Certainly traveled to a number of different countries, met quite a few composers (Debussy briefly, of course, e.g.), ...)
Hopefully one of the local libraries will get a copy of this CD, anyhow; not yet convinced to buy it but now interested to hear it at least once or twice. Thanks for the descriptions. (Cornell doesn't have more than one CD conducted by Yates (yet), and it's not this or "Moeran 2", alas... (I try to keep a list for my occasional visits there, after all.)) (... that said, they do have copies of both the 1943 and 1992 .. .editions? ... of Farewell My Youth. Hrm! *perks*)

[musiclover]

I have now spent some time listening over and over to the Symphony and although I do agree that it is long and not as well worked out as it could have been, had Bax spent some time on it in later life, it still contains many of his musical finger prints and has some really beautiful music in it.
In an earlier post I was not trying to say that one should turn off one's critical faculties, but I do think if we are all hoping that independent record companies such as Dutton are to keep going and delivering to us music that we want to hear, we should be more careful about the manner in which we write our comments. If our "reviews" effect the sales of a particular recording in a negative way that is clearly not right. It doesn't feel right to me anyway.

[Alan Howe]

I don't think one should hesitate to criticise a particular piece even if that might affect future recording plans. Once reviewers, whether professional or amateur, start to mitigate their views for fear of offending recording labels it will be impossible to trust what they say. Labels must be prepared to take flak as well as plaudits. So, I repeat: I'm grateful to Dutton/Martin Yates for their boldness in recording this reconstructed Bax Symphony, but I'm not convinced that it's anything more than an interesting curiosity.