Reinecke Symphonies

[JimL]

Well, I took the plunge.  Having come upon some financial resources, I finally completed my Reinecke symphony collection with the Chandos release of the 'Haakon Jarl' and 3rd Symphonies.  I already had the 1st on Naxos.  I've never heard even a smidgeon of either work, so this will be a new listening experience for me.  I remember several of you are mightily impressed with these works, particularly the 2nd.  To that end, I started this topic for discussion, and to have a place to air my opinions when the CD arrives.

P.S.  I got it from Presto.  CD Universe, apparently, had none in stock.  Hmmmmmmm...

[Alan Howe]

Well, I hadn't heard No.3 for a while, so I decided to give the recording on Signum...
http://www.amazon.co.uk/Reinecke-Harp-Concerto-op-182-Symphony/dp/B005145YTC/ref=sr_1_9?s=music&ie=UTF8&qid=1377210504&sr=1-9&keywords=reinecke
...(now on Christophorus) a spin. As with much by Reinecke, I had forgotten what magnificent music this is. It has such a wealth of memorable material and generosity of invention, that I find myself quite mystified why it hasn't remained in the repertoire. It's also fascinating to hear a symphony written at the age of 70 by such an important figure. By this time Reinecke surely didn't need to write music in order to make a living, so he must have wanted to offer the world his take on the conservative symphonic tradition. The result is a very powerful piece, far from a mere imitation of, say, Schumann or Brahms, with a strong lyrical impulse and some wonderful writing for all sections of the orchestra. If you don't know it, do give Symphony No.3 a try. I guarantee that it'll surprise you...

[edurban]

How do you feel about the two recorded versions of No. 3?  I have the Chandos, but I'm curious about the other.  Beissel I know only from the old Turnabout (iirc)  Rubinstein 6, with its crackerjack cover illustration (John Martin's "The Great Day of His Wrath".)  Started my youthful love of John Martin, btw, which is still going strong...

David

[petershott@btinternet.com]

Once again Alan twists the arm. I'm going to give this Beissel recording a try - already on the order list.

In answer to David, I enjoyed the Tasmanian SO / Shelley accounts on Chandos. But I did feel that his readings of both symphonies (especially No. 3) lacked fire. Can I use the word 'pedestrian'? These symphonies need some 'bite' to jump off the score, and maybe the normally excellent Chandos sound is just a little too plush and comfortable?

One incidental point about the Beissel recording is that you also pick up the Harp concerto. Now without prejudice to other 19th century harp concertos, the Reinecke isn't a piece for mere harp fanciers. It's a fairly substantial and rewarding work (there's a good Naxos recording).

And utterly off the thread, but an entirely predictable response from me: there seem to be five String Quartets by Reinecke - composed right across his composing career. And guess what? None are available (so far as I know) on commercial recordings. I'd like to hear them. Come on, CPO or Naxos!

[Alan Howe]

Beissel is rather weightier than Shelley; his orchestra also has some rather nice-sounding woodwind and tangy brass. I think I prefer it to the Chandos for these reasons, but it's good to have both.

BTW you can hear Beissel on YouTube - but the sound's not as good as on the CD:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=djDDVVGcGJs

[Mark Thomas]

Beissel's is on balance a more persuasive performance than Shelley's. The impressive first movement in particular gets a propulsively powerful rendition. I don't find much to chose between them in the slow movement, both deliver warmly affectionate readings, nicely phrased, and with just a hint of underlying drama. The third movement is the weakest, IMHO, and here I think that Shelley has the edge, because of his lighter touch. The extra heft which Beissel has at his disposal also tells in the finale, so overall if I had to make do with just the one recording it'd be his.

[eschiss1]

You're right, I think, none of Reinecke's (string) quartets are available in commercial versions (emphasis on the adjective). If you just want to hear them, though, matesic has recorded nos. 2 and 4 @ IMSLP, and rather well I think.

[Gerhard Griesel]

My first buy of Reinecke was the Naxos version of Symphony No. 1, + the Manfred Suite, which I found in a CD shop sale for the equivalent of $1. I never got round to really liking it and still regard it as background music. About two years ago I ordered the cpo double CD with the four piano concertos. Because of my prejudice I had never really listened to it until about two weeks ago, when I started listening to it in the car. I was stunned. Just today I played the slow movement of PC No. 4 to a friend. The melody is strange but magical, the interplay between orchestra and soloist is perfect.  Great stuff!

[Mark Thomas]

Some composers just sneak up on you like that. I used never to be too impressed by Reinecke either, but I must say that over the last couple of years I too have realised that there is an underlying strength and imagination in his music which had quite passed me by before.

[Alan Howe]

I think Reinecke is vastly underrated - maybe his dry-as-dust reputation as a teacher meant that people (unfairly) dismissed his music. Personally I think that Symphonies 2 and 3, PCs 2 & 3, the VC and the Cello Concerto are a fine legacy - and there's any amount of fine chamber music too. 

[petershott@btinternet.com]

If this amateur may offer a view to someone far more knowledgable.....you're absolutely right, Alan.

Crudely put, but in the history of music I think at one point it would have been plausible to think of Reinecke as a natural successor to Schumann and Mendelssohn. Trouble is: someone called Brahms arrived and forever changed the course of music and thereby pushed Reinecke to one side. Reinecke's view of his predecessors was similar to my view of policeman at the age of 13: they were figures of authority and not to be confronted or challenged. Hence Reinecke's teaching and work in the musical world venerated figures such as Bach and was suspicious of any innovation. That got him a reputation for being traditional and conservative, and since in a way we've all now been 'corrupted' by the tenets of later Romanticism, we've allowed ourselves to be persuaded that conservative music necessarily can't count as great music. The aesthetics of later Romanticism got us to think that great music must be that which, in a Nietzschean phase, is capable of 'detaining' us in life, disturbing us, grabbing us by the throat, knocking our socks off, overwhelming us.

But Reinecke's music just doesn't participate in that sort of game. It is always beautifully well crafted, melodious, charming, elegant, and whatever feeling or passion might lurk within it is always carefully controlled. If one can put to one side later (and often very great) music - now not easy to do - and listen to Reinecke's music properly and without prejudice then it brings about immense pleasure and satisfaction.

And I do think the very best of Reinecke is found in the chamber music. (Again Reinecke suffers through the prejudice that chamber music must somehow count less than full blown orchestral music). Two things infuriate me here. One is that so little of Reinecke's chamber music is available in commercial recordings (including the string quartets). His chamber music output is considerable and written for a wide range of instrumental combinations, and it also contains much wonderfully composed music intended for proficient amateurs and to be performed in 'haus'. With such a patchy representation on disc it is thus difficult to gain any discerning overview of it.

Second, a glance through the catalogue shows that a huge proportion of what is available is only available on 'compilation' discs with titles like 'Brahms and his friends', 'Romantic flute concertos', 'Romantic cello works' or whatever. The assumption seems to be that Reinecke is 'competent' but not capable of sustaining a disc on his own and therefore needs propping up with another composer. A great pity since it prevents us from recognising the true worth of this composer.

Apologies, I do rather gabble on. But just one bit of evidence: try a widely available Klavier disc in which three Reinecke chamber works are played by the Dallas Chamber Players. It contains the Trio for Piano, Oboe and Horn in A minor, Op. 188; the Trio for Clarinet, Viola and Piano in A major, Op. 264; and the Trio for Piano, Clarinet, and Horn in B flat major Op. 274. To be sure, not music to cause a seizure or blow the socks off. But, wow, what wonderful, well crafted, elegant stuff easily capable of providing endless and immense pleasure. Case rested.

[Peter1953]

Alan has said exactly what I think about Reinecke. But... I don't know his Cello Concerto. How much I love to hear that work. I only know this excerpt. And that sounds very promising, also thanks to Michael Samis's wonderful playing (did Michael write the cadenza himself?).

[Alan Howe]

I know the Cello Concerto from this CD:
http://www.bayermusicgroup.de/label/rbm/rbm465108.htm

[Mark Thomas]

Although Reinecke's Cello Concerto seems to be the best performance on the CD I suspect that it would be best to curb your enthusiasm and wait for Michael Samis' recording. The tempi in the Raff pieces, which I know well and can compare with other recordings, are mind numbingly pedestrian, and I assume that the same is true of the Reinecke, only we have nothing with which to compare it.

[Alan Howe]

Mark's right, of course, but it was the only way of hearing the piece at all...