Conradin Kreutzer on Dutch Radio

[Josh]

Several years ago, someone from Nederland used to send me a few recordings he'd make of Classical and early Romantic works performed live and broadcast on some radio station, works that - to both our knowledge - had never been commercially recorded before.  Among these was the Piano Concerto #2 in C, Op.50 by Conradin Kreutzer.  Unfortunately, my Dutch acquaintance didn't start recording until partway into the first movement, but still, what he captured is riddled with operatic, singable tunes, and sounds really nice.  It has a few surprises, like an instant tempo change here and there, introduction of a fresh lyrical theme virtually out of the blue, just enough to keep the listener on his toes, but there's nothing really innovative or amazing about it.  It's just a very solid, very nice, early Romantic piano concerto.

My problem is, I can't find any information whatsoever about orchestral works of C.Kreutzer, other than a work for Bassoon and Orchestra (which I find to be terrific).  Other than this, I've never seen more than that he wrote "piano concertos".  Not how many, when, or anything, just that he wrote "some".  Digging a bit, I found a single reference to a non-opera concert overture and an orchestral "dance", both dating from 1834; something I just discovered for the first time today!  There just seems to be a strange lack of information about the works of Kreutzer, other than a couple of his operas and chamber works (and that Fantasie for Bassoon and Orchestra).

Has anyone else had occasion to hear anything else of Conradin Kreutzer going out over the radio, or in a concert?  Obviously, at least his 2nd Piano Concerto is around, and printed, and has been performed in modern times.

[alberto]

I heard in an actual concert, many years ago, K.Kreutzer's Grand Septert op.62, performed by Consortium Classicum (the concert also included Mozart Oboe Quartet k.307 and Beethoven Septet op.20).The Kreutzer Grand Septet is a playful work, modelled on Beethoven Septet (same sequence of movements and instrumental layout).
I have a LP (Decca SXL 6422, Members of Vienna Octet, 1980) coupled to Berwald septet.
I discover just now that the Kreutzer has been in March 2011 reissued in a double CD Decca-Universal Eloquence.
I know also the overture to "Das Nachtlager von Granada" (1834): rather tuneful (we are "around" Weber).
It is in a deleted-disappeared Koch-Schwann CD from 2001, "German Romantic overtures vol.2" (Koch-Schwann 3-6766-2, Runfunkorchester Kaiserslautern, cond.Florian Merz. Contains: Weber, Spohr, Kreutzer, Schumann, K.G. Reissiger, Humperdinck, Cornelius). 

[alberto]

Sorry, the Decca LP is from 1970.

[jerfilm]

According to '54 Grove, Kreutzer was best known for his operas and composed in the neighborhood of 40 works for the stage.  He also wrote a cantata and an oratorio.   They claim 3 piano concertos, a septet, a quintet, a piano quartet, piano trios (and then) "etc."  The list is obviously incomplete since Josh's Bassoon Fantasie is not included.

The 1980 Grove listing is somewhat more comprehensive and includes many of his operas by name.  In addition to the works listed above, is a Variations for piano and orchestra, opus 35.   It would seem that there just weren't all that many instrumental/orchestral works.  Again, no mention of the Bassoon.

The three piano concertos have all been performed in the last 50-60 years as I have tapes of all three.  Concerto #1 is in Bb, opus 42, #2 is in C as Josh pointed out, opus 50 and #3 is in Eb, opus 65. 

Hope this helps.

Jerry

[eschiss1]

slightly verging from topic, I recall a review or two of CD releases of his chamber works, one or two of which I've caught and enjoyed on the radio, I believe. The septet and the trio op.43 are or were on a 1997 Arte Nova CD, and the septet itself (coupled with works by Witt, Bruch or Berwald) on various discs on Orfeo, MDG, Joan Records (2004 6-CD set), Edel Classics (2003, Kreutzer/Berwald),  etc.  (Apologies for the trivia - on the other and if I recall, it's a good piece and that is more often than I'd thought. Incomplete list and not counting Decca LPs and &c.)
(one other thing I go to have a look for when a 19th century Romantic is mentioned who I should have thought about before is, what of his music was published in the US, and in what form- ... hrm. A chorus with translated text (by the indefatigable Louisa T. Cragin) but music by "Conrad Kreutzer" was published by J.M. Russell of Boston...)

[Josh]

Thanks for the info!  I don't have access to Grove's, and I was hoping to know if it had anything.  I'm really excited to learn that all 3 of C.Kreutzer's Piano Concerti have been performed live, but that also makes me wonder why they haven't hit a CD yet.  He was a really good tunesmith, and I think a lot of people would like his music (at least, that which I've heard sounds really nice).

Here's what I have of his Piano Concerto #2.  I don't know if it's a single-movement work, or if the first movement is just really long.  This mp3 is nearly 14 megs in size, and even with a fair chunk missing, it's 15 minutes long.
http://www.mediafire.com/?6oow3fe8alsj33y

[eschiss1]

Hrm. Putting aside the not unusual curiosity that opus 50 applies to two works by Conradin Kreutzer at least (also to his overture to the opera Der Taucher or maybe- I think  more likely- to the opera as a whole), it seems that it (the concerto no.2) was published sometime around 1822 by Simrock (also sort of interesting since I thought he was only up to opus 23 by then- maybe that copy of opus 23 isn't a first edition after all... erm- never mind!) - and that St Pancras Reading Rooms has/have the parts to the 2nd concerto. (Full title for those who like such things - I like when they gave the instrumentation in the title, so much easier on others later - Grand concerto pour le piano forte : avec accompagnement de 2 violons, alto, flute, 2 clarinettes, 2 bassons, 2 cors, violoncelle et contrebasse, (trompettes et timballes ad libitum), opus 50, no.2.  not sure about the movement dividing-ups so looking for a contemporary review that might have remarked on it... though of course someone in a position to get over to St Pancras (there's a lot of water between there and me, among other things) could check aforementioned parts and eventually answer the question too and maybe see if they'd photocopy them, though I don't know.

[jerfilm]

OK, I digitized andk uploaded the three Kreutzer Piano Concertos here: http://www.mediafire.com/?q75f4rll393ke

Piano Concerto #1 in Bb, opus 42
Gunter Krieger, piano with  Smoller and SW German Radio SO
Sorry about the distortion in the peaks.  No way to fix it.

Piano Concerto #2 in C
Gunther Luwick, piano and Bamberg SO, Heinz Wahlberg
This one does indeed seem to be in one movement as Josh suggested.

Piano Concerto #3 in Eb
Gunter Krieger, piano with Wolfgang Hoffman Kurpfalziches Kammerorkester

This'll be all I can upload for several months as we'll be in Estes Park CO for the summer and no access to the collection]

Jerry

[JimL]

From what I heard, I would guess that the concerto is in 3 connected movements, and most of the 1st movement was hacked off.  The excerpt appears to start just before the transition from the first movement to the second, so it is still a mystery how substantial the first movement is.  It may be a full-fledged sonata type movement, as in Mendelssohn, or just a torso, as in, say, Vieuxtemps VC 2, or the later concertos of Herz.

[Josh]

OK, I digitized andk uploaded the three Kreutzer Piano Concertos here: http://www.mediafire.com/?q75f4rll393ke

Wow... thank you, thank you, thank you!  I can't begin to tell you how excited I am by this.

[eschiss1]

Very very belatedly, listened to the 2nd of the Kreutzer concertos. Expected C major though you didn't say so - in the event, rather effective (and not just pleasant, but fairly striking) brief work (3 movements in one) in C minor (ending in E-flat), if I am hearing right...? So again belatedly- thanks!!

[EarlyRomantic]

Can the links to the three concerti be refreshed?

[eschiss1]

I think I have all three that were posted (though I lack all performance etc. information about at least one of them) and with permission could reupload to my Mediafire and link to the new download forum since I think they're broadcasts? I don't even see the old post anymore.

[EarlyRomantic]

Eric,  Thank You. That would mean a lot to me. Those works were shocking finds for me: Both for the quality they evinced, in such early works, and that they had ever been played and recorded at all. Kreutzer tantalizes me: I just know there are jewels unexcavated in his body of work. I long for an  unrecorded Opera, or even a compilation of their overtures, or a collection of vocal-choral excerpts fromthe operas. Does anyone here who knows someone in an influential position feel the same way I do?

[Mark Thomas]

Please do upload them again, Eric. Thanks.