Sung composers that you just "don't get"

[Alan Howe]

I like both tea and coffee - and I can tell you why. Tea is more refreshing, so I would choose it, say, eight times out of ten. However, I do love the flavour of a good, strong coffee - and I like its ability to give me a caffeine kick when I want it. Perfectly logical, actually, because the two drinks do different things...

I'm afraid I want people at least to try to explain their preferences/dislikes/'don't get its' when it comes to music.

[kolaboy]

Gershwin's particular melding of jazz elements within a classical framework (however much assistance he had) just present themselves to me as an unwholesome chimera. I cringe every time I hear the opening of An American In Paris. I love jazz. I love classical music of all eras. But HIS particular mixture sends me running for the hills. Doesn't mean it's intrinsically bad - just means I don't care for it.
And then there's ol' Brahms. Love Brahms chamber music; songs; choral works. Pretty much his entire output - except for the symphonies. The symphonies just do not click with me....

But hey, Brahms went to sleep whilst Liszt played his piano sonata to him. I can't imagine that. Maybe he had low blood sugar.

[Alan Howe]

Yes, Brahms going to sleep during Liszt's Piano Sonata is an extraordinary historical detail, isn't it? Didn't he 'get it'? Or had he simply had too much bratwurst and beer beforehand?

[Gauk]

"I like oboe sonatas because of the wonderful reedy sound."
"I don't like oboe sonatas because of the horrible reedy sound."

Which is more logical? It comes down to the old saying "de gustibus non disputandum".

I'm not advocating that people should post things that just say "I like Brahms"; I'm absolutely with you there. But equally, "I like Brahms because his music is gorgeous" is also not very helpful.

What perhaps is useful in this thread is accounts of overcoming bafflement, which I think was the OP's intention, and the recipe seems to be heavy immersion in the "difficult" music. I'm sure it is easier to overcome a failure to understand something than an aversion to a composer's style.

[Alan Howe]

"I like oboe sonatas because of the wonderful reedy sound."
"I don't like oboe sonatas because of the horrible reedy sound."

Which is more logical? It comes down to the old saying "de gustibus non disputandum".

Well, it's possible...
(a) that the sound is actually needlessly reedy in comparison with most other oboes and therefore worthy of criticism;
(b) that the sound is actually no more reedy than any other oboe and that the listener hasn't really taken the time to accustom him/herself to the sound - and needs to try harder!
(c) that the reedy sound is required by/suited to the music involved.
(d) that the reedy sound is characteristic of a certain national style of playing and should be accommodated accordingly.

I find the two reactions quoted absolutely meaningless without the context in which they would be made. And if a reviewer came up with such a remark without further comment I'd regard it as lazy journalism in the extreme.

[eschiss1]

I'd ask (yes, I know, hypothetically/analogously, therefore the I would ask) "why bring sonatas into it? if what you don't like is the oboe sound, then what does it matter if it's an oboe sonata, an oboe suite, an oboe concerto, concertpiece,..."? (... people..)

[kolaboy]

"I like oboe sonatas because of the wonderful reedy sound."
"I don't like oboe sonatas because of the horrible reedy sound."

Which is more logical? It comes down to the old saying "de gustibus non disputandum".

I'm not advocating that people should post things that just say "I like Brahms"; I'm absolutely with you there. But equally, "I like Brahms because his music is gorgeous" is also not very helpful.

What perhaps is useful in this thread is accounts of overcoming bafflement, which I think was the OP's intention, and the recipe seems to be heavy immersion in the "difficult" music. I'm sure it is easier to overcome a failure to understand something than an aversion to a composer's style.

I have a very strong aversion to both Boulez, and buttermilk.  You could immerse me in a rank mixture of both for a year - and I would emerge none the wiser, and none the happier.  Sometimes there isn't a ten volume proustian answer as to why one likes or does not like a particular composer. Strong reactions are more often than not visceral ones.  If any desire to explore the reasons as to why a particular person does not care for a particular thing... well, that's a shadow-laden closet that's surely unique to every individual.
Why do I like early Penderecki, and tonic water straight? Because they taste good to me.
Selah...

[Alan Howe]

But I'll wager you could tell me why you can't bear Boulez if you tried. I'd be amazed if you couldn't give any reasons at all. Go on, give it a go - and I'll bet a number of us would agree.

For example, as a starting-point one might argue that, once music has abandoned recognisable melody, harmony and rhythm, it ceases to be music and becomes something more akin to incomprehensible sound-patterns or mathematically constructed noise. Any good?

[khorovod]

As what you might call an outsider to this forum, not a regular contributor episodes like this remind me why I don't join in very much. The real tone of some the comments here shines through the polite veneer and the obsessive way a reasonable poster is worried away at by an admin verges on baiting and not for the first time. . I'm sure it'll  all be tidied up soon and threads will be frozen and posts selectively deleted. I love this site for all it's opened up to me but, goodness me, how does this pettiness look to a newcomer or a potential one or artists and producers in the record industry??? 

[kolaboy]

But I'll wager you could tell me why you can't bear Boulez if you tried. I'd be amazed if you couldn't give any reasons at all. Go on, give it a go - and I'll bet a number of us would agree.

For example, as a starting-point one might argue that, once music has abandoned recognisable melody, harmony and rhythm, it ceases to be music and becomes something more akin to incomprehensible sound-patterns or mathematically constructed noise. Any good?

Alan, it doesn't even get that far. Boulez - before any analytical or personal aesthetics can kick in - literally gives me a headache. It is such an unsavory aural cocoon of studied dissonance that out-clevers the self-realized elite (who delight in "out-clevering" themselves). I've heard rumblings at a fork lift repair garage that were both more appealing AND more profound.  And, many of the connoisseurs of this ping bang dithering treat it as something akin to a religion - and God help the uninitiated bumpkins who do not bow the knee to said naked emperor...

As for myself, I'll opt for the fiery furnace.

But, to those who relish the relish - please wear headphones 

[Alan Howe]

I'll settle for that. Great answer!

[eschiss1]

khorovod- rather good question.

[Alan Howe]

...the obsessive way a reasonable poster is worried away at by an admin verges on baiting and not for the first time.

The problem is that a thread like this can easily become a mere exchange of names of composers we 'just don't get' - no explanations, nothing. And that would be very, very boring. So, if folk feel they have been 'baited', I humbly apologise - but 'resistance is futile': I want your elaborations, please!! And if that makes me appear rather too Borg-like...
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Borg_%28Star_Trek%29
...don't worry, it's for the good of the forum.

Anyway, as I said: humble apologies to anyone who feels I've worried away at them excessively.

[kolaboy]

...the obsessive way a reasonable poster is worried away at by an admin verges on baiting and not for the first time.

The problem is that a thread like this can easily become a mere exchange of names of composers we 'just don't get' - no explanations, nothing. And that would be very, very boring. So, if folk feel they have been 'baited', I humbly apologise - but 'resistance is futile': I want your elaborations, please!! And if that makes me appear rather too Borg-like...
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Borg_%28Star_Trek%29
...don't worry, it's for the good of the forum.

Anyway, as I said: humble apologies to anyone who feels I've worried away at them excessively.

Personally I didn't feel "baited" in the slightest. I welcome an opportunity to vent 

[Gauk]

To say you "don't get" Boulez is to say you don't understand him (as in "I don't get that joke").

So the discussion then becomes one of the musical language used by Boulez and the musical language understood by any particular listener. Personally, I have reservations about criticising what I don't understand if my lack of comprehension might be due to insufficient effort on my part to understand it (rather than it just being unintelligible nonsense).

But that, I think, is a subject for a different forum.