Dutch Music

[Amphissa]

I've now uploaded all the symphonies of Vermeulen. Enjoy!

[britishcomposer]

Talking about great and famous conductors who are also composers, I read in Röntgen's biography  that Willem Mengelberg (a German, born in the Netherlands), brilliant pianist and perhaps the most famous and controversial conductor (a quirky pioneer, self-glorification, his attitude during the Second World War) the Dutch Concertgebouw Orchestra ever had, also composed music. Has anyone ever heard something of Mengelberg?

I have just uploaded a piece by Mengelberg for you, Peter!
His 'Improvisationen über eine Original-Melodie zu Radierungen von Rembrandt' seems to be his most 'popular' orchestral score. It was performed last year in Cologne I think. Well, the broadcast dates from 2011 at least.

[Peter1953]

That is very kind of you, britishcomposer. Thanks very much!

[semloh]

Thank you for the Mengelberg, britishcomposer - I had no idea he had composed anything! 

It's a fine piece of late-romantic music but - in my view - it illustrates the kind of problem which I suggested (in the discussion of Bruno Walter) would affect conductors who turn to composition, namely that of finding a personal voice. It is essentially a (rather delicious  ) melange, in this case (perhaps unexpectedly), of Bruckner, Mahler and Wagner.

That's just my reaction - and maybe others have reacted differently??

[JimL]

Thanks for the Dopper, Ilja!  I can add that the key appears to be G minor.  I haven't heard the whole thing yet, just what I could listen to when I dropped it into my iTunes.  It looks pretty short.  Is it in one movement?  If not, is there somewhere I can get movement titles?

[Ilja]

Jim, the score gives the key as G major; whilst the original work was organised along more traditional lines, Dopper's 1923 revision is played attacca throughout. There is a overview of Dopper's compositions (J. Stam and I. Datema, Cornelis Dopper; lijst van composities en geannoteerde bibliografie (list of compositions and annotated bibliography), Stichting Cornelis Dopper, 1993). I'll check the movement titles next time I'm at the Dutch Music Institute.

[J.Z. Herrenberg]

Jim, the score gives the key as G major; whilst the original work was organised along more traditional lines, Dopper's 1923 revision is played attacca throughout. There is a overview of Dopper's compositions (J. Stam and I. Datema, Cornelis Dopper; lijst van composities en geannoteerde bibliografie (list of compositions and annotated bibliography), Stichting Cornelis Dopper, 1993). I'll check the movement titles next time I'm at the Dutch Music Institute.

Ilja - I intend to go to the Dutch Music Institute, too, in the near future, just to have a look at Dopper's Ciaconna and Zuiderzee Symphony and Orthel's Second. Do you come there often? I was at the KB last week and nearly entered the adjoining institute (didn't have time, so I had to restrain myself)). I met the chairman of the Dopper Foundation Jaap Stam in Stadskanaal a few years ago, when I (and another UC member) was present at the world premiere of Dopper's recently-discovered Requiem.

[Christo]

I met the chairman of the Dopper Foundation Jaap Stam in Stadskanaal a few years ago, when I (and another UC member) was present at the world premiere of Dopper's recently-discovered Requiem.

At Thursday, 19 November 2009, to be precise.  The disappoinment of that memorable evening - one doesn't hear a world premiere that often - being Pärt's Fourth Symphony that proved to be rather drab.

[J.Z. Herrenberg]

I met the chairman of the Dopper Foundation Jaap Stam in Stadskanaal a few years ago, when I (and another UC member) was present at the world premiere of Dopper's recently-discovered Requiem.

At Thursday, 19 November 2009, to be precise.  The disappoinment of that memorable evening - one doesn't hear a world premiere that often - being Pärt's Fourth Symphony that proved to be rather drab.

A memorable ride, too, to the North! 

[JimL]

Jim, the score gives the key as G major; whilst the original work was organised along more traditional lines, Dopper's 1923 revision is played attacca throughout. There is a overview of Dopper's compositions (J. Stam and I. Datema, Cornelis Dopper; lijst van composities en geannoteerde bibliografie (list of compositions and annotated bibliography), Stichting Cornelis Dopper, 1993). I'll check the movement titles next time I'm at the Dutch Music Institute.

Thanks, Ilja!  I'd appreciate it if you would.  And the first thing I heard is very definitely in G minor, but that may not mean anything.  Dvorak's 8th Symphony is called the G Major Symphony, but it most definitely begins in G minor.  The key signature is G Major throughout the opening, but that first cello tune has all B-flats and E-flats (as accidentals) until the final G Major chord.  I hope this isn't one of these things like Rubinstein's 1st PC, where the first movement is most definitely organized around an E minor modality (including secondary key and final resolution) but somewhere down the line somebody got the idea that it was in E Major and the error became self-sustaining. 

[Dundonnell]

Glad to get the Dopper Cello Concerto

It seems a trifle odd that amidst all the attention being lavished on Julius Rontgen and his very considerable oeuvre that Dopper appears to still be relatively ignored. I would really like to hear the 4th Symphony "Sinfonietta" and the 5th "Symphonia Epica".

[jerfilm]

Dopper appears to still be relatively ignored

I would agree and add Brandt-Buys to your list.

Jerry

[Dundonnell]

Amphissa,

Many, many thanks for the upload of "Bridge of Dawn" by Joep Franssens

It is the most gorgeously beautiful music

Another composer of whom I had never heard I downloaded the piece, as I have downloaded so many more orchestral works from this site but, from your description of it, decided to try it out right away and am totally captivated by it. It was written only a few years ago too..........marvellous

Thanks again for making this available

I really urge other members to listen to this piece. It is really rather wonderful-in my opinion of course

[Ilja]

Jim, the score gives the key as G major; whilst the original work was organised along more traditional lines, Dopper's 1923 revision is played attacca throughout. There is a overview of Dopper's compositions (J. Stam and I. Datema, Cornelis Dopper; lijst van composities en geannoteerde bibliografie (list of compositions and annotated bibliography), Stichting Cornelis Dopper, 1993). I'll check the movement titles next time I'm at the Dutch Music Institute.

Ilja - I intend to go to the Dutch Music Institute, too, in the near future, just to have a look at Dopper's Ciaconna and Zuiderzee Symphony and Orthel's Second. Do you come there often? I was at the KB last week and nearly entered the adjoining institute (didn't have time, so I had to restrain myself)). I met the chairman of the Dopper Foundation Jaap Stam in Stadskanaal a few years ago, when I (and another UC member) was present at the world premiere of Dopper's recently-discovered Requiem.

As it happens I work in the same building as the KB, so I should have ample opportunity to traverse its labyrinthine corridors and get to the institute. But alas, the workload usually prevents me from doing so. But when you're going to see the Ciaconna, I'm really interested how much the eventual performance version one hears is a reduction of the original.

[Ilja]

Glad to get the Dopper Cello Concerto

It seems a trifle odd that amidst all the attention being lavished on Julius Rontgen and his very considerable oeuvre that Dopper appears to still be relatively ignored. I would really like to hear the 4th Symphony "Sinfonietta" and the 5th "Symphonia Epica".

The Epica (based on the Odyssey) may prove difficult, since to my knowledge it only exists in ms score. Sterling looked at the feasibility of recording it and came up empty, but that was a long time ago. The size of the required orchestra (and choirs, and soloists) doesn't help of course: Dopper knew Mahler rather well at this time and it shows in the work's scale.

The Symphoniëtta is a different matter, and is a lot like Wagenaar's 'Sinfonietta': about the same scale and length (20-25 minutes).