Unsung 20th Century Symphonists

[Gareth Vaughan]

I have heard some of Segerstam's symphonies and am not impressed. They are usually in one movement and amount to unstructured rambling pieces of sound. He composes rather like turning on a tap - out comes the soundstream and after 20-25 minutes he turns it off. Where has the music gone? It doesn't matter because the next symphony will turn the tap on again and it will be equally transient and meaningless. They are often given pretentious titles like "Afterthoughts Questioning Questionings" (No. 23) or "Doubling the number for Bergen!" (No. 162), or "Names itself when played?" (No. 181).  A waste of good manuscript paper, in my opinion.

[Alan Howe]

251 symphonies? It's hard to take that sort of output seriously. And Raff was supposed to have been a Vielschreiber...

[Latvian]

I have heard some of Segerstam's symphonies and am not impressed. They are usually in one movement and amount to unstructured rambling pieces of sound. He composes rather like turning on a tap - out comes the soundstream and after 20-25 minutes he turns it off. Where has the music gone? It doesn't matter because the next symphony will turn the tap on again and it will be equally transient and meaningless. They are often given pretentious titles like "Afterthoughts Questioning Questionings" (No. 23) or "Doubling the number for Bergen!" (No. 162), or "Names itself when played?" (No. 181).  A waste of good manuscript paper, in my opinion.

I agree wholeheartedly! Not much substance there.

It rather reminds me of a painter who had a gimmick about 20 years ago (maybe he's even still around?) named Morris Katz (I think). He appeared periodically on the TV shows and demonstrated how he could whip off a finished painting in 10 seconds or so. He claimed to be the world's most prolific "artist."

[Latvian]

Wilhelm Stenhammar's one acknowledged symphony, in G minor ... several good recordings; I prefer Neeme Järvi's early recording on BIS but it's not the only very good recording of this very fine piece from early in the 20th century.

And a gorgeous piece, at that! One of my favorite symphonies from any era. Both of Jarvi's recordings are excellent, however, my preference is for the Stig Westerberg recording on Swedish Discofil (out of print now, I believe).

Perhaps we should start a thread for "unsung" conductors. If so, Stig Westerberg would be one of my first nominations. A consistently fine interpreter, often overlooked among better-known names, a steady and reliable presence in Nordic music, bringing keen insight and imagination to his interpretations. Swedish Radio recently broadcast a live Westerberg performance of Peterson-Berger's 3rd Symphony (another of my all-time favorite symphonies) that blew away every recorded version by a mile!

[JimL]

I have heard some of Segerstam's symphonies and am not impressed. They are usually in one movement and amount to unstructured rambling pieces of sound. He composes rather like turning on a tap - out comes the soundstream and after 20-25 minutes he turns it off. Where has the music gone? It doesn't matter because the next symphony will turn the tap on again and it will be equally transient and meaningless. They are often given pretentious titles like "Afterthoughts Questioning Questionings" (No. 23) or "Doubling the number for Bergen!" (No. 162), or "Names itself when played?" (No. 181).  A waste of good manuscript paper, in my opinion.

I agree wholeheartedly! Not much substance there.

It rather reminds me of a painter who had a gimmick about 20 years ago (maybe he's even still around?) named Morris Katz (I think). He appeared periodically on the TV shows and demonstrated how he could whip off a finished painting in 10 seconds or so. He claimed to be the world's most prolific "artist."

Sounds like they're not real symphonies in the traditional sense of the term.  Parody symphonies, mayhap?

[eschiss1]

Sounds like Rowan Taylor may have Dennis Busch beat? Oh. Actually, several of these do- he was only up to no.80 in 1994. Bad example... (hundreds of serenades though.)

It's always been trouble, trying to get into definitions.  Even before the 20th century they were arguing whether the Dante and Faust- goodness, i suspect whether even Beethoven's 9th, I don't doubt (I suspect there is no doubt they were arguing this) - were symphonies. Opening up a can of worms, that. How about we stay classic: a symphony is a piece in one or three very brief movements for small orchestra, usually just strings and basso continuo, sometimes a few winds, meant to open an opera. We can agree on that, surely...

[Amphissa]

I'm surprised no one has mentioned Nino Rota. Or perhaps his symphonies are so unsung that even we don't know about them. But indeed, he did write two, and they can be found on disc from Chandos. Delightful works.

Kurt Weill wrote two symphonies. The first is not so inviting to me, but the second is much more enjoyable. It was given a fine recording by Walter with the Concertgebouw, although there are more recent recordings.

In the New World, Luís de Freitas Branco wrote 4 symphonies. The 2nd is quite engaging.

Lars-Erik Larsson's 3 symphonies are deeply indebted to his Nordic predecessors, but enjoyable nonetheless.

Among the real unsungs, I would mention Khachaturian's wife, Nina Makarova. Her Symphony in D minor is well worth seeking out, available on CD coupled with a piano concerto by Zara Levina. Makarova and Khachaturian met at conservatory. I can see why he fell for her!

[eschiss1]

Rota's symphonies are sung enough to be recorded, which was a prerequisite of the thread... all three of them - no.1 in G ca.1939, no.2 in F (1937/39/41 revised 1975?), no.3 in C of 1956-1957. Have even heard one or two of the three on Classical Choice television, I think. Ah, my mistake actually- there are four, but I'm not sure if the 4th has been recorded yet; I suspect Mr. Noseda may do so soon though too, at a guess. (Actually, I think the first two have been recorded on both BIS and Chandos- on BIS by Ruud, on Chandos by Marzio Conti (sorry, nos. 1 and 2 by Conti, 3 by Noseda- my mistake again..). Good!)

[semloh]

Rota's symphonies ... Ah, my mistake actually- there are four

... and perhaps less ambitiously, his Symphony on a Love Song - so maybe we should credit him with five?

[TerraEpon]

I have all three Rota symphonies on a Japanese disc, don't remember what label. Got it from Berkshire Record Outlet.

I assume 'Symphony on a Love Song' is the fourth.

[JimL]

...In the New World, Luís de Freitas Branco wrote 4 symphonies. The 2nd is quite engaging...

Not quite so sure about that New World bit, Dave.  If I'm not mistaken, I think de Freitas Branco was Portuguese.  Lisbon isn't exactly what you would call one of your musical capitols, but it's definitely not what you would call Western Hemisphere either!

[semloh]

My comment about the number of Rota symphonies got wrapped into the quote, due to my unfamiliarity with the procedure, apologies.
Was the Symphony on a Love Song being counted as Rota's fourth, as TerraEpon suggested?

[eschiss1]

don't know- hrm. several places four symphonies are mentioned but I suspect that you're right and that "anything with symphony in the title" is reasonably being counted, or I should say within reason being counted...

[Amphissa]

Not quite so sure about that New World bit, Dave.  If I'm not mistaken, I think de Freitas Branco was Portuguese.  Lisbon isn't exactly what you would call one of your musical capitols, but it's definitely not what you would call Western Hemisphere either!

hahaha -- well, Lisbon is the western side of Portugal, so very very very close to the new world -- hahaha

Sorry, somehow his folder got mixed in with my new world composers when I rebuilt my collection after the hard drive crash last year.

And now I've got to go find that 3rd (and 4th?) symphony by Rota that I wasn't aware of.

[semloh]

Have we mentioned Derek Bourgeois? According to his website he has composed 64 symphonies plus another for wind instruments, of which only his 6th and 8th have been put on CD. During the 80s, I taped a BBC broadcast of him conducting the Bournemouth Sinfonietta in his 5th, plus Christopher Seamon conducting his Chamber of Horrors - 4 Demonic Dances. Anybody else have any of his work?