Great Unsung Third Symphonies

[eschiss1]

Hrm. _Great_ unsung thirds? I incline to almost agree re the Myaskovsky (that's a heck of a funeral march at the end). Other 3rds I might want to nominate (Brian, Schmidt, Wetz) don't quite make it, very good though I might think them. "Great" is a deliberately and obviously high bar, after all.

(... hrm. I should check if he's been mentioned; I would make a case that Magnard's 3rd comes pretty close, at that, come to think of. Yes.   Berwald?)

[jerfilm]

How about: 

Ropartz Symphony #3 in E for soli, chorus and orchestra?

One of my least favorites:  Mahler 3

J

[eschiss1]

While I've only heard it once, I am surprised I forgot the Ropartz.  (Ah. I couldn't stand Mahler 3, now I adore it, though not so much as I do 4 and - well, not adore, that's not the word, but...- well, anyway- 6. Hrm. Not really sure what changed my opinion in 20 years, though. Not unsung anymore, anycase, not now it isn't- itself a matter of some surprise maybe.)

Hrm. Going to have to listen to it yet a few more times - probably not "great" I suppose though unlike Lawrence Foster I'd say it's rather good- Enescu 3?...

[Gauk]

Ropartz is a good case example where the third is his best, IMO. (Though I admit to having heard it more often than the others).

[mattbrown]

Probably defying the sacred "remit', Carl Nielsen had a period of "sungness" maybe not so sung anymore,  but his 3rd symphony is one of those I can listen to back to back several times.

[Alan Howe]

the sacred "remit"

...without which there would be no forum at all because we'd have no interest in running it. Please let's not rehearse this subject: it was settled last summer and is not going to change. No problem with Nielsen 3 anyway...

[semloh]

Hmmm - never visited this thread! 

Great unsung 3rds? How about Ludvig Norman's Sym. No.3 in D minor, Op.58 (1881)? In the romantic tradition, and perhaps it was dismissed as old-fashioned for 1881. But since then it has been inexplicably neglected. The opening movement demonstrates Norman's total command of orchestral forces, using precisely the right instrumentation and nuances of tempo and volume to say what he wants to say. The ex-radio performance which I think was/is available in the UC downloads section is spectacular. 

[Delicious Manager]

Has anyone mentioned Franz Schmidt's 3rd yet (apologies if they have and I missed it)? Those galloping, wide-sweeping melodic lines and that seemingly unflagging energy. What a piece!

What a composer!

[jani]

My favorite 3rd symphonies are: Gliere, Enesco, Melartin, Ropartz, Roussel, Szymanowski, Rachmaninov (much better than his 2nd, and I think could be counted almost as unsung, and therefore I wanted to include it here). Also Nielsen's is very nice one!

Interesting is, that Enesco, Ropatz, Nielsen and Szymanowski use vocal parts too in their 3rd symphonies.

[eschiss1]

have you heard the broadcast of the uncut Melartin 3rd in the archives, jani? Better than the Ondine recording, I think, and certainly more complete...

[jani]

eschiss1, yes the complete version of Melartin's 3rd is the one to listen. I don't care about the Grinn's take on it at all. I hope the symphony will get more performances though Oramo did fantastic job with it!

[jani]

I wish Chausson had written more symphonies, his only one is so fantastic, but this is off topic...

[chill319]

I have little to add to this thread but will cast my votes to plump up the tallies. But first, please indulge me in a few words about "greatness," intended not as proclamation but as fodder for discussion. For me, music scores can be objectified as structures, but since music is ultimately a recreative medium intended for consumption by individuals, "greatness" must ultimately be constrained by each side of that triangular relationship. The notes, the realization, and the reception are like facets on a crystal: if one is clouded the whole crystal becomes dull.  It's a happy day when all three are in harmony. Then the crystal dazzles.

My responses to 10 unsung romantic symphony 3s, on a scale of 1 to 9 (Beethoven's, of course):
8       Draeseke
8       Enescu
7.5    Magnard
7       Glière
7       Raff
7       Wetz
6.5    Melartin (uncut version)
6       Chadwick (might go higher with a better recording)
5.5    L. Nielsen
5.5    Dvorak

[eschiss1]

Dvorak 3 (while unsung at least compared to his others) is just a bit too flawed for me- structurally, specifically. I think he later learned how to make some things work that at that point didn't. When I hear the slow movement end in D-flat major and the finale just come in in E-flat major with no transition at all, no taking advantage of the distant relationship, I think of the opportunity missed (think of the finale of Haydn's last piano sonata- E major slow movement, followed by a G-natural repeated note that could be 3-of-E minor but turns out to be 3 of E-flat major... what a moment!...)

[chill319]

Keep talking, Eric. Those are great ears you've got.