RPC - where next for British interest?

[Gareth Vaughan]

It would be very nice if you did, Eric.

[eschiss1]

Re Buxton's article: ordinarily even a non-JStor subscriber would have access to the first page but it is only a one page article so not even that. Still, it should be at the Cornell U library and I do go there though not as often. Hopefully article has information on -who- the author is . Will remember to check.

[Gareth Vaughan]

Thanks, Eric.  Incidentally, in June 2010 Giles wrote: "No one has mentioned Kathleen Bruckshaw 1879-1935 who wrote a good piano concerto."  How do we know it was good? Who says so, and why should we believe whoever says so if we have not access to the score? So...

[eschiss1]

I don't know. Actually, I don't even know how it is we know Liszt was one of the best pianists of all time, even though I am willing to credit it; but that question is philosophically analogous and connected at most if at all (beyond the somewhat common language, and even then, different dialects thereof so not really that either) in - probably odd ways, again at most.

[jerfilm]

Well whoever wrote the piece on Bruckshaw in the 1950s Grove must have known something about her piano concerto??   What really puzzled me, when the 1980s edition of Grove was published, many, many of our favorite unsungs had disappeared.   I suppose it was just becuz their stars had faded and no one was playing them anymore and the powers that be said, no one will miss 'em......Much more exciting to talk about all of these new, young 20th century whipper-snappers......much is our loss.

Jerry

[RoothamRVWFinzi]

Albion's thread begins: "Where next for the British interest in RPC?" - so I think it is intended to be confined to British Romantic works for piano & orchestra that have not yet been recorded.

Indeed it is, although a plea for more Rootham will always find favour with many forum members! These are certainly very interesting suggestions, Gareth, and it's good to see female representation on the list - given their idiom, it might be possible to also advocate Grace Williams' Sinfonia Concertante and Ruth Gipps' Concerto.

My sincere apologies. I was blinded by enthusiasm and as such, misread the tenor of the thread......which is a very interesting one by the way.

Sincere regards,

Eric.

[Martin Eastick]

Just a few extra details to add to Gareth's post of yesterday dealing in more detail with a number of British Concertos - as follows:

Rosalind Ellicott: unfortunately I have lost touch with the family member who appeared to be doing so much for Rosalind's music, just after the CD of her 2nd piano trio was released. repeated requests to be updated on the progress of setting the surviving mss (which included a couple of overtures & the piano quartet) using Sibelius software, have fallen on deaf ears and I have had no contact since 2004. At the time however I did ask about the Fantasie (pno/orch) but it was not among the works that appeared to have survived although she did tell me that there were (hopefully?) more mss to be recovered from other branches of the family. The person involved, a Victoria Vowles, for reasons unknown, has now gone silent on us so perhaps the only way to reawaken this interest is for someone to record Ellicotts FIRST piano trio!!

Richard Walthew: I understand that the COMPLETE MS is in the RCM.

Charles Edward Horsley: Although the ms in the BL is missing the first few pages (of orchestral tutti mainly), I have been in touch with Richard Divall and apparently he has a complete copy of the the solo part which includes a piano reduction of the missing opening! - he has apparently edited and complete the work - so this should be ready to go - so to speak! A recording project to also include the violin concerto would be surely the way to go.

John Francis Barnett: I have recently been in touch with various family members and also have a copy of the piano part of the Op25 concerto which I would strongly recommend - however the problem rest as ever with the orchestral parts etc. Kistner have confirmed that they have nothing in their archive and apparently many of Barnetts mss were destroyed during the 1950's by the family.
I have though benn given a lead to a friend of the family in the US who is at present doing some research and as the concerto was performed in the US, we may have more luck here. Obviously, I will keep a close eye on this and provide further information if/when available. If all else fails here, I am sure that a reconstruction of the orchestration could be done from the details and cues in the piano solo part - perhaps along the lines of Hobson's work on Moscheles 8.

[Gareth Vaughan]

Well whoever wrote the piece on Bruckshaw in the 1950s Grove must have known something about her piano concerto?? 

Not necessarily, I'm afraid. I have seen remarks (complimentary and otherwise) made in print by quite eminent musicians regarding certain "unknown" works which betray a complete ignorance of the score(s) in question.

[Lionel Harrsion]

Well whoever wrote the piece on Bruckshaw in the 1950s Grove must have known something about her piano concerto?? 

Not necessarily, I'm afraid. I have seen remarks (complimentary and otherwise) made in print by quite eminent musicians regarding certain "unknown" works which betray a complete ignorance of the score(s) in question.

...not to mention the legendarily scandalous article on Rachmaninov in Grove 5 which was written by the tin-eared Rosa Newmarch (aided an abetted by Eric Blom who, at least, ought to have known better)!

[eschiss1]

the same Rosa Newmarch who, if I recall, was so helpful to Rachmaninoff's great friend Nicolai Medtner- well, that's - ironic.

[Gareth Vaughan]

If all else fails here, I am sure that a reconstruction of the orchestration could be done from the details and cues in the piano solo part - perhaps along the lines of Hobson's work on Moscheles 8.

Speaking of which, does anyone have any news on when Zephyr Records will be releasing Hobson's performance of Moscheles' PC No. 8?

[Lionel Harrsion]

the same Rosa Newmarch who, if I recall, was so helpful to Rachmaninoff's great friend Nicolai Medtner- well, that's - ironic.

Yes, that Rosa Newmarch.  She was a 'music critic' rather than a 'musician'.  There's no doubt she knew a lot of facts about Russian (and Slovak) music and musicians but her critical faculties were distinctly suspect.  And as Sibelius said, 'no-one ever put up a statue to a critic'.

[eschiss1]

Sibelius was right only in the very very most literal sense and maybe not even then - (matter of definitions... and one of Liszt's jobs was certainly that of critic, and Schumann before he started, and Berlioz, and Thomson after, and one could go on; but one expects you may mean music critics who- well, see below- but let's grant this for the moment, fine...)

and taking the spirit perhaps rather than the letter for one part and the letter for that part...
even music critics who neither played nor composed in any "significant way" had significant, even major works ("statues" if you will) dedicated to them (at least one important work by Edmund Rubbra, I think, and others, count here- and some works composed before Sibelius wrote, too) - so- I'd say Sibelius missed the boat here.

(An earlier example though also probably after Sibelius' quote- whenever that was from - was Elgar's piano quintet, dedicated to Ernest Newman, not mostly known as a musician, that is, composer or performer.)

[Lionel Harrsion]

Sibelius was right only in the very very most literal sense and maybe not even then - (matter of definitions... and one of Liszt's jobs was certainly that of critic, and Schumann before he started, and Berlioz, and Thomson after, and one could go on; but one expects you may mean music critics who- well, see below- but let's grant this for the moment, fine...)

and taking the spirit perhaps rather than the letter for one part and the letter for that part...
even music critics who neither played nor composed in any "significant way" had significant, even major works ("statues" if you will) dedicated to them (at least one important work by Edmund Rubbra, I think, and others, count here- and some works composed before Sibelius wrote, too) - so- I'd say Sibelius missed the boat here.

(An earlier example though also probably after Sibelius' quote- whenever that was from - was Elgar's piano quintet, dedicated to Ernest Newman, not mostly known as a musician, that is, composer or performer.)

We are getting off-topic here (which is entirely my fault) but I wanted to say I thought your comment very interesting - although I suspect Sibelius was being literal (and was thinking of those who were solely critics) I acknowledge the metaphorical 'statues' you allude to.  However, my instincts still tell me that Ann Landers was basically on the money when she wrote, "Asking a writer what he thinks about critics is like asking a lamp post how it feels about dogs".   

[eschiss1]

If we're restricting ourselves to unrecorded piano concertos, the Ruth Gipps concerto is coming out (already recorded, in the can, on the way to release, I gather) on Cameo this year, so... (ok, at least according to a Wikipedia editor. Still.. hopefully true.!)