Unrecorded British Violin Concertos of the 20th Century

[eschiss1]

I -think- - I can't "decode" the listing I read to my satisfaction- that the Goossens has received a broadcast performance (mentioned on CADENSA), but I don't know of any commercial recording either.
Ah right.  7 September, 1960, Proms, Tessa Robbins, violin, BBC Symphony/composer conducting (world premiere), 36'20" including announcements, now on Chester Music Limited promotional CDs (which is a strange sort of entry in Cadensa ??!?) (waited 12 years for its premiere though- well, not unprecedented, admittedly, some works even of conductor/composers wait longer.)

[violinconcerto]

The Goossens Phantasy concerto is long available on an "Composer's Domain" CD. You can kind all details on my website at the Goossens entry. You did not have to wait so many years for it... ;-)

Best,
Tobias

[patmos.beje]

Is it possible to purchase a CD of Goossens' Phantasy Concerto?  If so please could you clarify how one goes about this.  Thanks.

[violinconcerto]

Is it possible to purchase a CD of Goossens' Phantasy Concerto?

It is, I did so.
"Composer's Domain" isn't a "Real record label" if I remember correctly, just someone selling broadcast performances. I once ordered three CDs from them, one of them the Goossens recording. Due to this "not really a real record label"-thing I wasn't unable to find the webiste of them right now. There is also the chance that it is gone already. Maybe any of the others here knows something about them?

Best,
Tobias

[semloh]

I had no success in tracking down "Composers Domain" so it looks like they have gone, and I can't find any recorded performance of the Goossens' Phantasy Violin Concerto - only the earlier piano concerto. Pity! 

[albion]

I can't find any recorded performance of the Goossens' Phantasy Violin Concerto - only the earlier piano concerto. Pity! 

Last year Ralph Couzens stated that, with regard to series begun by Richard Hickox

Both Holst and Goossens are being continued with Sir Andrew Davis and various orchestras.

Hopefully when the latter is resumed, this Phantasy Concerto, Op.63 will be scheduled.

[patmos.beje]

As the Goossens Phantasy Violin Concerto was radio broadcast and therefore in the public domain is it possible to load it up to the British Music Broadcast section?  It would make a great addition to that section.

The earlier Phantasy Concerto for piano has been recorded by Chandos.  It took a few hearings before it made an impact but it is a fine piece.

[violinconcerto]

As the Goossens Phantasy Violin Concerto was radio broadcast and therefore in the public domain

I don't want to be nitpicking, but it is wrong in copyright law that everything that was ever broadcasted is now public domain. The rights to use this recording for more than a personal use are still at the copyright holders.
And to put a recording online says that one holds the rights of it. In that case one can also produce CDs of it and sell them. Many here (or in other fora) do the first and feel good, but would pretty likely say that selling an own burned CD-R commercially would be illegal. Which I think is a misinterpretation - both things are illegal.
Of course I can understand the attraction of the download folders and don't want to impair this. I just wanted to exlain my point of view and why I don't put recordings online. Due to the fact that I don't own copyrights for any recording in my archive, I just cannot put any recording online.

Best,
Tobias

[Mark Thomas]

Understood. What we are doing here is following commonly tolerated practice and the moment that changes then so will our policy.

[semloh]

Understood. What we are doing here is following commonly tolerated practice and the moment that changes then so will our policy.

Yes, indeed.   

On-line broadcasting is blurring the boundaries that were at least thought to exist in law, and all those issues regarding the copyright status of what is broadcast, as well as of the broadcast itself, and the role of funding and profit-making - with respect to bot the original broadcast and subsequent re-broadcasts by others - are making it too difficult to establish a relevant and sustainable legal position. In short, the law is struggling to make itself meaningful in the digital age! Until a legal precedent is set to the contrary, making available radio broadcasts of non-commercially available material, free of charge, can - I believe - be regarded as acceptable. 

I could go on  (e.g. about how the law would take a very dim view of any effort, at this late stage, to prosecute someone making radio recordings available free of charge, and how difficult it would be to establish that they had suffered any harm) but I think this should be in the "Copyright and Upsetting Applecarts" folder.

[Mykulh]

I am not overly concerned with copyright issues in this age of ours where the "bank robbers" are the bankers rather than the holdup men. What worries me is that making all this rare music easily available is that it might be a disincentive to record producers to record rare repertoire if they can be obtained in other ways without cost. Just some food for thought.

Michael

[violinconcerto]

commonly tolerated practice

A short experience I made about this: I think this practice looks like commonly tolerated because no copyright holder is going for legal action so far (for what reasons ever). But a year or so ago I received an e-mail out of nowhere from a composer threatening legal action if I not immediately delete her name and composition from my website and send the recording back which I own in my archive. Yes, you understand right: On my website was just her name, basic biographical data and the *information* that there is a recording of her work. I did not copy my recording at any time - which I received from an radio archive legally (and signed a copyright form about the usage) - I just had the recording in my archive.
I did not agree because I could not accept and understand this behaviour and asked for opinions in the mail list of the IASA (International Association of Sound and Audiovisual Archives) of which I am a member. To my scare not all members (and all professionals in this topic) agreed with my position and advised me to get legal advice. The discussion ran high and there were several opinions stating that even mentioning the name would violate the moral rights of the person.
Whatever. Finally I received a message from the lawyer of the radio station (where I got the recording from) who told me that she will handle all further legal action and advised me to forward all upcoming messages from the composer to her. After that I did not hear anything from the composer nor the lawyer anymore. I sent a message a few weeks later to the lawyer and asked about the state of affairs, but received no answer.

To cut a long story short: I think you all feel pretty well with the whole "put it online" thing, because there is nobody out there caring about this right now. I - in contrary - met someone who cared and I got just a happy end, because I really did nothing bad.

Best,
Tobias

[albion]

I am not overly concerned with copyright issues in this age of ours where the "bank robbers" are the bankers rather than the holdup men. What worries me is that making all this rare music easily available is that it might be a disincentive to record producers to record rare repertoire if they can be obtained in other ways without cost. Just some food for thought.

Michael

With respect to contributors (including myself), often the recordings made of broadcasts are not of the best quality and many of the performances quite patently cannot be regarded as the 'last word' on a particular work. Moreover, it is impossible to imagine that even a tiny percentage of the huge wealth of music now represented in the downloads section would ever have been on any recording company's 'to do' list.

a year or so ago I received an e-mail out of nowhere from a composer threatening legal action if I not immediately delete her name and composition from my website and send the recording back which I own in my archive. Yes, you understand right: On my website was just her name, basic biographical data and the *information* that there is a recording of her work. I did not copy my recording at any time - which I received from an radio archive legally (and signed a copyright form about the usage) - I just had the recording in my archive.

Absolutely bonkers - she should have been grateful that anybody cared enough about her music to want to own a recording.

[albion]

Luckily, I don't envisage getting a threatening communication from Ethel Smyth, Ina Boyle or Ruth Gipps



but with Halloween coming up, you can't be too careful, so I'll make sure the delicate crockery is put away ...

[Dundonnell]

Indeed I would have thought it just as likely that members of a site such as, this after hearing a recording (possibly of not very great quality ) of a particular composition which appealed to them, would be as likely to demand a modern recording on cd