Sources of Lachner symphonic scores?

[John H White]

  Could anyone please point me in the direction of scores of Franz Lachner's symphonies? I am particularly interested in getting hold of Nos 2, 3 & 4, as I want to find out what bridges the huge chasm between rather run of the mill No 1 and the massively dramatic No 5. I would say this is comparable with the Chasm between Beethoven's 1st and 5th symphonies. If I can get hold of any of these scores, then, if I live long enough, I shall be able to copy them Into Sibelius software and produce virtual performances of them, as I was able to do for No 6.

[eschiss1]

Well, several German libraries (e.g. Bavarian/Munich) have a number of Lachner manuscripts (not all of these symphonies have been published in full score, I gather, or in some cases at all, yet- I see Vinzenz Lachner's reduction of no.3 in a library, but don't know if the full score is around anywhere) and I doubt all of them have been, or even may be, scanned in for public distribution...

[eschiss1]

BTW, I see Musikproduktion Höflich released a new study score of Symphony no.6 in 2011. Good news, that...

[John H White]

BTW, I see Musikproduktion Höflich released a new study score of Symphony no.6 in 2011. Good news, that...

Yes, that's the one I used to copy out into Sibelius software last year.

[John H White]

By the way, as far as I can remember, Grove quotes the date and place of publication of each of the 8 symphonies. I reckon ,if I were 40 years younger, I'd be going on a grand tour of secondhand bookshops and music shops in Bavaria in search of such treasures!

[eschiss1]

I'm surprised that they do that, given that at least one of no.2, 4 or 7 was never published at all. I think. Not even, I think, in reduced form, leave alone in full score.  I wonder where Grove got that information.

If the conductor Christopher Fifield is still around and about on this forum or at least responding to pmsgs, I seem to recall that he wrote here that he was studying some symphonies- including Lachners'- from this era- even to the point of writing an essay about them, or something?... - and that was one of the things he'd turned up? *hopeful * (Not, I should edit in, hopeful that I'm right - I'd rather that they were published, or that they are published- the more copies, the better likelihood of preservation- but if he knows perhaps where they are, maybe we could contact the libraries about the practicability and cost of making at least one additional copy of each of 2, 3, 4 and 7 in full score...)

[John H White]

That would be brilliant Eschiss.  By the way, I've just remembered that Dr Harald Johannes Mann, who I believe lives at Rain am Lech, is probably a world authority on the Lachners. Sadly my knowledge of the German language is practically zero, so I haven't tried to contact him, but anyone who is fluent in German might be able to obtain further information from him on this subject.

[eschiss1]

Wouldn't mind hearing about scores of the symphonies (and other major unpublished or unavailable works) of the other Lachner brothers also. "Just saying"...

[John H White]

I gather that Ignaz Lachner wrote a symphony for children, following on from Leopold Mozart,s example from the previous century but, as yet, I've heard of no other symphonic works by him or their youngest brother Vincenz.

[eschiss1]

I am under the impression that they did write at least one concert symphony each but I would have to check why I thought so... hrm. ADB for Vinzenz Lachner mentions several symphonies but might be mistaken (and that's no evidence that they've survived.) (The corresponding article for Ignaz Lachner also mentions symphonies. Still, the works by Vinzenz at IMSLP, and the descriptions of 102 documents at RISM, seem interesting, likewise what I know of Ignaz Lachner's music, though not "Lachner symphonic scores"  (except in the sense of works for symphony orchestra, which pretty definitely? do survive, I think- a Festival Overture by Vinzenz, orchestral polonaise by Ignaz - and an autograph score of Ignaz' opera Lorelei, at Hamburg... e.g. Hope they're good enough to interest a conductor/opera house/etc. Anyway. Sorry. Was pretty sure- maybe I'll find evidence the symphonies still exist somewhere... hrm.)

[John H White]

The one orchestral item by Ignaz Lachner that I have been able to get hold of is his Concertino for Horn, Bassoon and Orchestra, Op. 43, published by Robert Ostermeyer Musikedition. Some years back I copied it out into Noteworthy software and you can find it on the Noteworthy Scriptorium.

[John H White]

Sorry, I didn't put it on the Noteworthy Scriptorium in case it infringed the copyright claimed by the present publisher, in spite of it having been written back in 1850. However, if anyone is interested, I could send them the Noteworthy file as an e-mail attachment together with a copy of Noteworthy Viewer freeware to view it with or play it through.

[eschiss1]

a new edition of an older work can indeed be copyrighted, depending on how much editing was done and the relevant laws of the various copyright domains, etc., far as I know (emphasis on far as I know...)

[John H White]

It would seem that anyone could dig out a printed copy of a score long out of copyright, add a few metronome marks or expression indications to it and re-copyright as his own edition.

[eschiss1]

Note the "how much editing" - in most jurisdictions the bar is set pretty high I gather. What you say used to be true in e.g. the USA of the 19th century though!!