Henry Gadsby (1842-1907)

[albion]

I need to be open to what they had/have to say, not expecting every note to thrill me, perhaps, but to enjoy the thrill of discovery nonetheless.

Very nicely phrased! Enjoyment comes not only from visceral, emotive reaction to the intrinsic object, but also from knowing something of it's context and historical background. These composers clearly felt that they had something to say or demonstrate - whether or not we are remotely interested is our decision.

[eschiss1]

even my own appreciation for the pottery has grown in (trundling?) around the Library of Congress scans and looking at all the brief dances and piano pieces and parlor songs that make up most, though definitely not all, of the US-published material that they are preserving (and, too, I have become a convert, if you like, in the importance of preserving the music then - I may not be convinced of its value but at least a later generation doesn't have to leave it to my fallible judgment, and there's been so much of it lost that I would have liked to judge for myself etc. if I make any sense at all- my language gets a bit too approximate here I think...) Though I know computer bandwidth is a great concern (I am not trying to be disingenuous...) and on none of these sites can "everything" of (etc.) for future consideration (or anywhere near any noticeable percentage) be stored - (my mediafire account hasn't been up that long and I'm already ... well, hoping they don't move a person into a different tier based on bandwidth the way my other account does... YIPES!... I had already guessed and now don't have to...)

anyway... (here, plot, here plot, here's a piece of thread...)
I have a notion what we are arguing about, but I have a notion that I don't understand -why- we are arguing about it (arguing is not the best-chosen word either, but I keep feeling like there is something not quite on the surface here.)

[Dundonnell]

Every month I open the pages of 'International Record Review' or 'The Gramophone' and read reviews of three or four more cds of Mahler symphonies and think to myself-"Just how many more versions of a Mahler symphony do we need? Who is actually going to buy a Mahler Symphony No.? from some Central European radio orchestra on an obscure label?" And now I see that CPO have embarked on a Bruckner cycle

The joy of discovering new music by new composers (from whatever era) is a massive part of my enjoyment of music. Of course not all of the music turns out to be earth-shattering masterpieces, although equally there hasn't been all that much dross either But, from time to time, I find myself astonished by the quality of music which, for whatever reason, has been neglected for far too long. And such a discovery makes it all worth while

[semloh]

...I don't expect the "Sung" composers to have only composed masterpieces, ..............

I don't want to harp on a minor dispute, but I have to say that Arbuckle's whole response is 'spot on' for me.    ... and I agree with Dundonnell's comment which arrived just as I began typing...

We must be prepared to accept whatever we find, and we won't know if there are hidden/lost/unrecognised masterpieces (or 'mistresspieces'? ) unless we get to listen to them, and that clearly may entail a lot of hard work. In any case, even the poor works help us better understand a composer's creative life - and the unsungs are especially important, I think, because they were in the majority and therefore still contributed significantly to the cultural context in which the famous composers worked. I think that's what I'm trying to say!

Anyway, tastes change - as the plethora of Mahler cycles illustres! - and today's minor work may be tomorrow's "most downloaded'! There are many works, and composers, which were once unpopular and regarded as peripheral but are now mainstream, and vice-versa. So... just go for it!

[Mark Thomas]

Let's not get hung up on this, please. The only way that one can assess an unsung composer's value is to look at the scores and, even better, listen to the music. That's inescapable and I certainly wasn't arguing that we should just assume that composer A or B is of no interest on the basis of assumption. Heck, that's the attitude amongst critics and musicologists of the 20th century which saw so many of the "great" unsungs buried for so long. They were condemned by people who had never heard  note of their msuic.

No, I was simply sounding a note of caution, as much for my own benefit as anybody else's, that just because I haven't heard of a composer whose catalogue looks interesting on paper I shouldn't assume that his music would tickle my ear when I hear it. Hope springs eternal, which is just as well considering the amount of money I've spend over forty years collecting recordings of works which don't cut the mustard when I finally get to hear them. I don't mind that disappointment because from time to time one unearths a thing of beauty which is worth getting excited about.

Dig on into the archives, John. Dig on, and unearth a treasure...

[albion]

even the poor works help us better understand a composer's creative life - and the unsungs are especially important, I think, because they were in the majority and therefore still contributed significantly to the cultural context in which the famous composers worked

Quite so. There was a huge amount of composition taking place in Britain in the late-Victorian period which is now effectively lost to us - all too often literally so, due to the destruction of performing material. I would love to hear orchestral music by Gadsby and Wingham but, unfortunately, the opportunity may never arise. However, the less interest that is shown in these composers the less that likelihood will ever come to pass, however 'poor' the results might be to some listeners.

I was simply sounding a note of caution, as much for my own benefit as anybody else's, that just because I haven't heard of a composer whose catalogue looks interesting on paper I shouldn't assume that his music would tickle my ear when I hear it.

Why caution? - I don't honestly think that anything dire will result from posts in this (or any other) thread. With respect (from a musico-historic viewpoint), whether or not it tickles your ear today is of less importance than the tickling of ears in the Crystal Palace circa 1880.

Dig on, and unearth a treasure...

But I don't want to!

[Alan Howe]

All I would say is this: far be it from me to discourage anyone from digging up unsung composers because I've done a bit of it myself, especially in the case of Percy Sherwood. I also agree that there is a certain thrill involved in the chase. However, Mark mentioned the case of Ebenezer Prout in this connection because it turns out that his music, once lauded, is actually desperately deficient in interest. So, while encouraging anyone to pursue research, I think a touch of realism is in order. Not all music is worth disinterring: some is just not very good. After all, there may be more than one reason why some music has been forgotten. Nevertheless, lest I be misunderstood, I have no interest in discouraging anyone from researching forgotten composers and their music.

My other concern is this: there are many composers whose music has been rediscovered and has yet to be performed in public in modern times, let alone recorded. Of course, a great deal of research and effort has been involved in uncovering all this material, but I am certain that a crucial question has to be asked: it is the same crucial question that I am asked every time I talk to recording companies and performers and it concerns whether the music is worth spending time performing and/or recording in the first place. And I have to have an answer to that question...

So, continue researching, friends, but let your enthusiasm be moderated by a healthy dose of realism!

[Alan Howe]

I apologise profusely if my previous post comes across as patronising. I was simply describing my experience in these matters...

[eschiss1]

So far as I know, even my favorite composer wrote a number of duds (I am not positive the Wellington's Victory Symphony is quite -that- bad but I hear that his mandolin works (2 sonatas, possibly others) are pretty dull. Dull is to my mind a fairly potent insult if the arts are in question...)

[eschiss1]

As to not getting hung up on this - I agree and apologize for extending the thread beyond length (and ignoring its subject.)

[albion]

Back on topic - a couple of portraits:



Illustrated Sporting and Dramatic News, 30th March 1878



Carte-de-visite, Elliott & Fry, c.1880

[Paul Barasi]

Mark #19 + Alan #21 = 2 x really great posts!

I'm left with just one area of questions: what about the commercial risks of releasing an unsung composer's CD? Which have done so well that they are on a par with your average big name CD? [Are these already answered somewhere else on the site?]

[Alan Howe]

Thanks, Paul, for your understanding of our position - one which is simply the outcome of serious and sustained involvement in a number of recording projects, all of previously unrecorded music.

Your question is an interesting one and I don't really know the answer, except anecdotally. I have been told by the head of one CD label that a certain release in which I had a small part is one of his most successful releases. It's hard to imagine, though, that we're talking about sales comparable with big-name, big-label releases, so there are obviously considerable financial risks involved here. However, the leading independent labels must think they have a sufficiently large and stable customer base to consider releasing as much unsung music as they do. Maybe Mark can enlighten us further?

[albion]

Mark #19 + Alan #21 = 2 x really great posts!

I'm left with just one area of questions: what about the commercial risks of releasing an unsung composer's CD? Which have done so well that they are on a par with your average big name CD? [Are these already answered somewhere else on the site?]

Thanks, Paul, for your understanding of our position - one which is simply the outcome of serious and sustained involvement in a number of recording projects, all of previously unrecorded music.

Your question is an interesting one and I don't really know the answer, except anecdotally. I have been told by the head of one CD label that a certain release in which I had a small part is one of his most successful releases. It's hard to imagine, though, that we're talking about sales comparable with big-name, big-label releases, so there are obviously considerable financial risks involved here. However, the leading independent labels must think they have a sufficiently large and stable customer base to consider releasing as much unsung music as they do. Maybe Mark can enlighten us further?

I think this is veering towards a generalised thread and away from poor old Henry Gadsby - these posts might well be the subject of a new topic in themselves, but this is simply a modest research thread about a particular composer with no recording envisaged or expected.

[eschiss1]

Hrm. Did he ever publish under his middle name Robert w/o first name do you suppose...
Also, http://www.cyberhymnal.org/bio/g/a/gadsby_hr.htm "Census entries indicate a 1840 birth" - hrm. Musicsack has 1842, anyway. VIAF just has fl.1848 (... flourished in 1848? that's odder still given the meaning of "flourished"- maybe floruit doesn't mean what I think it means.)

(Then again, neither MusicSack nor VIAF is allencompassing or perfect. I had to figure out info on Percy Hilder Miles mostly by myself, for example.)