How many symphonies did Weinberg compose?

[Dundonnell]

Onno van Rijen tells us on his Moisei Vainberg/Weinberg website- http://home.wanadoo.nl/ovar/vainberg.htm that Weinberg composed twenty-two symphonies.

http://www.classical.net/music/comp.lst/acc/vainberg.php tells us that Weinberg wrote twenty-six symphonies.

The difference, presumably, is explained by the inclusion or non-inclusion of the four Chamber Symphonies.

However, Onno van Rijen lists numbered symphonies from No. 1(1942)  to No.19 "The Bright May"(1986) and a final Symphony "Kaddish"(1992). That makes a total of twenty. There are two(?) Sinfoniettas(1948 and 1960), except that there are, according to van Rijen, two Sinfoniettas No.2 of 1960-op.70 and op.74.

The addition of two Sinfoniettas would bring the number to twenty-two.

Can we therefore correctly assume that there are only two Sinfoniettas and that Weinberg wrote Twenty Symphonies(Nos. 1-19 + 'Kaddish'), Four Chamber Symphonies and two Sinfoniettas

[Dundonnell]

Oh....NO

Michael Herman's excellent Discography of Russian Symphonies says that the "Kaddish", op. 154  is No. 21 effectively because there is a No.20, op.150 of 1988-not mentioned by van Rijen

....and there is an unfinished No. 22 of 1996...........

Help

[eschiss1]

Martin Anderson- you mentioned a 20th symphony (maybe the work now being claimed to be the 21st??) in an interview with Gabriel Chmura I think awhile back- can you shine any light on this?...

[Holger]

That's a question which I have been thinking of in the past myself. However, I am pretty sure to know the solution now.

"Kaddish" is definitely Weinberg's Symphony No. 21, this is evident if reading the liner notes of the Northern Flowers release of his Symphony No. 1 where you can find the following Weinberg quotation about what he considered his most important piece, taken from a 1994 interview: "The most important? The Passenger. All other pieces are The Passenger too. Of the later symphonies, the Twenty-First one, which has not been played yet. It is dedicated to the burning of the Warsaw Ghetto where my folks died. This symphony is The Passenger too." - Clearly, he refers to the "Kaddish" Symphony here.

Moreover, New Grove really lists a Symphony No. 20, Op. 150 (1988) and a Symphony No. 21, Op. 152 (= Kaddish Symphony, see above). I also know there is a fragmentary Symphony No. 22, which was completed by Kirill Umansky (* 1962) and performed in public already about ten years ago if I remember correctly.

So there are the 22 actual symphonies plus the four chamber symphonies as Dundonnell said. The reason why they are sometimes included is probably that Weinberg once said (as some kind of joke) that he didn't call his chamber symphonies 'symphonies' because he wouldn't want to risk to surpass Myaskovsky's number of symphonies, the latter being a composer he adored.

The two Sinfoniettas are commonly not counted.

I think that's it. What I don't get is why former publications ignored Weinberg's symphonies after No. 19 but my guess is that this was simply a gap of information.

I only hope Chandos will increase the pace of their Weinberg symphonies series, its progress is woefully slow in my opinion. For example, I am absolutely eager to listen to Nos. 20 and 21!

[Dundonnell]

Thanks, Holger

Yes..I think that makes perfect sense and clears things up properly. It is very odd that Onno van Rijen misses out Symphony No.20, op.150.

Regarding the cd issue of Weinberg's symphonies: Klaus Heymann recently said that Chandos and Naxos had reached an agreement:

"With Chandos now, [they're recording] Weinberg—so we share it. They're doing certain symphonies. I'll ask which ones they want to do and we'll do all the others. They don't have the resources that we do in Russia and in Poland, so we do the Polish Weinberg material with the Warsaw Philharmonic, and the Russian ones we do in St. Petersburg. They do the stuff that doesn't have language and doesn't need a choir. It's very cooperative. There's a give and take. But if there's a chance of any conflict, we say you go first. Whether we sell a thousand or two thousand of a title, overall it doesn't really matter."

We shall see

[Holger]

That's good news with Klaus Heymann, so there seems to be hope we will have the complete cycle in nearer future! Fine to know about it, thanks for letting us know of course!

I told Onno (whom I am in contact with from time to time) about Weinberg's Symphonies Nos. 20, 21&22 a while ago when I was doing research myself, however he seems to have forgotten about it.

[eschiss1]

and I am glad to see (at least) two record companies (apparently NEOS, too, and cpo ! ) committed to his music. I anyway have thought much of it for some time (many thanks to those, including Mr. Anderson and others, who with their writings pointed me in that direction.)