Ferdinand Thieriot

[Alan Howe]

I am intrigued by the music of German composer Ferdinand Thieriot (1838-1919), a pupil of Rheinberger and member of the Brahms circle. Wikipedia says this about him:

Ferdinand Thieriot (April 7, 1838, Hamburg – August 4, 1919, Hamburg) was a German composer of Romantic music and cellist.
He was a pupil of Eduard Marxsen in Altona and belonged to the circle of musicians around Johannes Brahms, who was also a pupil of Marxsen. Later, Thieriot was a pupil of Josef Rheinberger in Munich. A close, friendly relationship connected him with his teachers all his life. Thieriot was married to a publisher's daughter (Ernst Berens, Hamburg), Else Berens. The marriage remained childless. He worked as a music teacher and musical director in Hamburg, Ansbach, Leipzig (1867) and Glogau (1868-1870). Later Brahms recommended Thieriot for the position of "Artistic Director" of the Styrian Music Association in Graz (1870-1885). The composer always received high praise in concert reviews: "... and met with a warm and friendly reception by the audience and deservedly so. ... Excellent work, clarity and good taste regarding the instrumentation; employment of dignified motives full of character ... Enrichment of the concert repertoire." From March 1902 onwards, Thieriot had his home again in Hamburg where he lived until his death. (Performances of his works in concerts at the Hamburg Philharmonic and Singing Academy as well as in Leipzig where he obtained a post in 1897 at the Directorium of the Bach Society in Leipzig).
Thieriot's chamber music constitutes a great part of his total output and is judged to be among his finest compositions. He is known to have composed 4 piano trios: Opp.14, 45, 47 & 90, 13 string quartets, only two of which have been published, 2 Octets (Op.78 for 4 violins, 2 violas and 2 cellos and Op.62 for 2 violins, viola, cello, bass, clarinet, horn, and bassoon) a quartet for flute and string trio Op.84, a quintet for piano and winds Op.80, a quintet for piano and string quartet Op.20 and several instrumental sonatas. In addition to the above, several unpublished compositions remain in manuscript awaiting publication.
Wilhelm Altmann, one of the most influential and perceptive chamber music critics of all time, writing of Thieriot's chamber music, states:

"Thieriot's chamber music is without exception noble and pure. He writes with perfect command of form and expression."

German Wikipedia has this list of his compositions:

Operas:
,,Renata" Oper in 4 Akten Text nach einer Dichtung von Julius Wolff Leipzig 1898
,,Die Hochländer" (Finale des 1. Aktes)
,,Armor und Daura" tragische Episode aus dem Schottischen auf Ossian, Dichtung von Louise Otto-Peters (solo SATB SATB Orch) Glogau, 1869

Cantatas:
,,La régine Avrillouse" (Die Maikönigin) altfranzösischer Frühlingstanzreigen aus Frau Aventiure von Joseph Victor von Scheffel op. 74, Leipzig, 1901
,,Der Ilsenstein" Ballade von Mosenthal
,,Die Macht des Gesanges" (SATB S Orch) Gedicht von Friedrich Schiller
,,Am Traunsee" (SSA solo Bar Vl Vl Va Vc Kb)
,,Kantate der Klage und des Trostes" op.50 für Chor, Solostimmen und Orchester, Leipzig, 1885 Public Domain-Noten in der IMSLP
,,Gott sei uns gnädig" Kantate nach Bibelworten (solo SATB SATB Orch) 1915
,,Der 57. [Psalm]" für (SATB Orch Org ad lib)
,,Der 67. Psalm" (Solo SATB, Chor und Orchester), München, 1864
,,Requiem nach Friedrich Hebbel" (SATB S Orch) op.52, Graz/Leipzig, 1873/1891 Public Domain-Noten in der IMSLP
,,Stabat Mater" (solo SATB SATB Orch)
,,Te Deum laudamus" (solo SATB SATB Orch

Orchestral Works:
Sinfonie D-Dur
Sinfonie Nr. 2 F-Dur
Sinfonie Nr. 3 C-Dur
Sinfonie cis-Moll, UA am 18. Mai 1908 in Hamburg
Sinfonie B-Dur
Sinfonie D-Dur
Sinfonie E-Dur
Sinfonie Es-Dur, Leipzig, 1907
Sinfonie f-Moll, Graz, 1872
Sinfonie g-Moll, Hamburg ,1918
Sinfonietta E-Dur, op.55, Graz, 1876
Ouvertüre "Dionysia"
Ouvertüre "Loch Lomond", op.13, Leipzig, 1868
Ouvertüre zu Friedrich Schillers Turandot op. 43
Divertimento G-Dur
Elegischer Marsch a-Moll, 1897
Festmarsch C-Dur, 1883
Menuett F-Dur
Orchestersuite d-Moll
Orchestersuite E-Dur
,,Leben und Sterben des vergnügten Schulmeisterlein Wuz" op.72, Text: Jean Paul Leipzig, 1900

Concertos:
Violinkonzert op.68
Violinkonzert Nr.1 A-Dur, op. 68, Leipzig 1897
Violinkonzert Nr.2 h-Moll, 1912
Klavierkonzert für 2 Klaviere und Orchester op.77
Klavierkonzert Nr. 1 B-Dur, Graz, 1878
Klavierkonzert Nr. 2 c-Moll
Konzert für Orgel und Streicher F-Dur, Hamburg, 1910
Konzert für Orgel, Streicher, Hörner und Pauken, D-Dur
Konzert für Violine und Violoncello g-Moll, op.96, Leipzig, 1914
Konzert für Violine und Bratsche op.92, 1910
Tripelkonzert D-Dur für 3 Violinen, op.88 UA am 12. April 1910 in Hamburg
Konzert Nr.2 für Violoncello, G-Dur, 1915
Konzert Nr.3 für Violoncello, A-Dur
Konzert Nr.4 für Violoncello D-Dur,1917
Konzertstück D-Dur für Violoncello
Suite für Violoncello G-Dur
Zwei Konzertstücke für Violoncello, op.76, Nr. 2 Caprice, Leipzig, 1903

Works for String Orchestra:
Serenade op.44,
Serenade F-Dur op.44, Leipzig
"Bei Giorno" von Benito Fumagalli (Bearbeitung)
Walzer op.39 von Johannes Brahms (Bearbeitung)
Tempo di Valse F-Dur
Zwei Walzer (D & A) op.54, 1895

Chamber Music with Piano:
Serenade B-Dur (Fl Ob Clar Hn Fg Kla)
Klavierquintett D-Dur op.20,
Klavierquartett Nr.2 op.30, Leipzig, 1875
Klavierquartett g-Moll, Hamburg, 1905
Klavierquartett F-Dur, Hamburg, 1913
Klaviertrio F-Dur, Hamburg 1856
Klaviertrio D-Dur op.1, Hamburg, 1858
Zwei leichte Trios zum Gebrauch beim Unterricht op.3 (G-Dur & C-Dur), Hannover, 1859
Zwei leichte Trios op.12 (D-Dur & a-Moll), Hamburg, 1867
Klaviertrio f-Moll op.14, Leipzig, 1868 (J. Brahms gewidmet)
Klaviertrio A-Dur, Graz, 1873
Klaviertrio B-Dur op.45, Leipzig, 1890
Klaviertrio E-Dur, op.47, Leipzig, 1890
Klaviertrio Es-Dur, Leipzig, 1894
Klavierquintett a-Moll (Pn, Ob, Cl, Cor, Fag) op.80, Leipzig 1903 / Reprint Warngau 2005
Klaviertrio e-Moll op.90, Leipzig, 1909
Klaviertrio D-Dur, Hamburg, 1916

Works for Solo Instrument with Piano/Organ:
Thema und Var. op.29
Divertimento all´ongarese op.10 für Violoncello und Klavier
2 Adagios für Violoncello und Orgel op.41
Abendstimmung für Violine und Orgel (Klavier)
Larghetto G-Dur für Violine und Orgel
Larghetto h-Moll für Viola und Orgel
Largo d-Moll für Violine und Klavier
Serenade G-Dur für Violoncello und Klavier
Sonate Es-Dur für Horn (Violoncello) und Pianoforte, 1915
Sonate B-Dur für Violoncello und Klavier op.15, Leipzig, 1860
Sonate im leichtern Style op. 56
Sonate C-Dur für Violoncello und Klavier
Sonate D-Dur für Violoncello und Klavier
Sonate A-Dur op.58 für Violine und Klavier
Sonate Nr.3 G-Dur für Violine und Klavier, Hamburg, 1910
Suite B-Dur für Violine und Klavier
Thema und Variationen G-Dur für Violoncello und Klavier
Thema und Variationen op.29 für 2 Violoncelli und Klavier

Chamber Works without Piano:
Oktett B-Dur op. 62 (Klar Fg Hn Vl 1 2 Va Vc Kb) Leipzig, 1887
Oktett d-Moll
Choral für 3 Violoncelli Ist Gott mein Schutz und treuer Hirt
Suite D-Dur für 3 Violoncelli
Erstes Streichtrio D-Dur, Winterthur 2004
Zweites Streichtrio a-Moll, Winterthur 2003
Streichquartett A-Dur op.83, Leipzig, 1905
Streichquartett Nr.2 C-Dur op.93, 1911
Streichquartett E-Dur
Streichquartett G-Dur, op.84, Winterthur, 2005
Streichquartett As-Dur, Winterthur 2005
Streichquartett e-Moll
Streichquartett a-Moll
Streichquartett B-Dur
Streichquartett c-Moll, Winterthur 2004
Streichquartett D-Dur, 1913
Streichquartett h-Moll, Winterthur, 2003
Streichquartett g-Moll, Winterthur, 2003
Streich-Quintett G-Dur, 1914
Streich-Sextett D-Dur
Streich-Oktett C-Dur op.78
Flöten-Quartett G-Dur op.84 (Fl Vl Va Vc), Leipzig, 1905
Flöten-Quintett F-Dur (Fl Vl 1 2 Va Vc)
Klarinetten-Quintett Es-Dur (Klar Vl 1 2 Va Vc) Leipzig, 1897

Works for Piano Solo:
Klavieretüde op.22.2
Natur und Lebensbilder op.17 & op.18
Sechs Phantasiestücke op.22
Durch die Puszta op.23
Drei Impromptus op.35, Lübeck, 1881
Zwei Klavierstücke, op.36 Intermezzo-Humoreske
Drei Klavierstücke op.37 [Toccata]-Quasi Gavotte-Intermezzo
Zwei Stücke für 2 Klaviere op.38
Drei Stücke für [Pianoforte] leicht op.39
Drei Sonatinen für Klavier (C, F, G) op.71, Leipzig, 1898
Zwei Stücke militärischen Charakters op.82?, Leipzig, 1904
Albumblatt Fis-Dur
Andantino quasi allegretto B-Dur
Bagattelle A-Dur
Tanz-Caprice D-Dur
Caprice Es-Dur
Einweihungsklänge zu einer Festlichkeit C-Dur
Fughetta scherzanda D-Dur
Fughetta scherzanda G-Dur
Gavotte G-Dur
Gigue h-Moll
Humoreske E-Dur
Lied ohne Worte E-Dur
Molto vivae f-Moll
Narratio A-Dur
Presto a-Moll
Romanze E-Dur
Toccatina F-Dur
Traum E-Dur
Variationen über ein eigenes Thema Es-Dur
Variationen E-Dur op.65
Vergangenheit d-Moll
Walzer a-Moll
Walzer As-Dur
Walzer Des-Dur
Zwei Fantasiestücke c-Moll & D-Dur, Leipzig, 1867
Humoreske E-Dur
Klage gis-Moll

Piano 4-Hands:
Sechs Klavierstücke zu vier Händen op.34 Heft I, Heft II
Sechs Klavierstücke zu vier Händen op.46 im Umfang von 5 Tönen
Zwei Klavierstücke op.40
Allegro non troppo G-Dur
Andante tranquillo a-Moll
Cavallerie B-Dur Legende für Klavier
Doppelfuge d-Moll, Graz, 1871
Humoreske G-Dur
In den Gefilden Terpsichore´s Reigen-Cyclus für Pianoforte Hamburg, 1918
Klavierstück C-Dur
Klaviersonate f-Moll
Dritte Tanzsuite für Klavier
Stück in Des-Dur
Stück in f-Moll
Zur Karnevalszeit 4-händige Silhouetten
Zwei Tanzweisen G-Dur für Klavier
Vom Donaustrande op.64
Thema und Variationen für 2 Klaviere, op.66

Works for Organ:
Festhymne B-Dur op. 85/1
Passacaglia (in freier Form) op.85/2
St. Petri Präludium Es-Dur op.85/3
Orgelfuge Es-Dur op.85/4 fugae regulariter suspectus
Idylle E-Dur,op.85/5
Choralbearbeitung Gelobet seist du Jesu Christ op.85/6
Choralvariationen Wer nur den lieben Gott lässt walten op.85/7
Choral In allen meinen Thaten op.85/8

Choral Works with Piano or Organ:
,,Andacht" Worte aus Psalter und Harfe von C. J. Ph. Spitta (SSA, Klav)
,,Du sprichst: Ich bin reich" Geistlicher Gesang (SATB Org)
,,Hand in Hand wie dieses Paar"(SATB Klav)
,,Hochzeitlied" für Chor (SATB SA Klav) nach einem Gedicht von Goethe
,,Hochzeits-Musik" für Chor, Solo und Pianoforte, Text von Louise Otto-Peters
,,Luther" (TTBB Org/Trp Trp Pos Pos) op.94 zur Einweihung der neuen Lutherkirche in Worms 31. Oktober 1912
,,Christnacht" op.70 (SATB S B Org) Leipzig, 1899
,,Lebenslied" nach einem Text von Johann Gottfried von Herder (SSA, Klav)
,,Liebchen auf der Wiese", italienisches Volkslied (SSAA Klav)
"Rose, Meer und Sonne sind ein Bild der Liebsten mein" Text aus dem Liederfrühling von Friedrich Rückert
,,Aufforderung zum Tanze" op.48 (SSATB Klav4)
,,Die Macht des Glaubens" Kantate (SATB Bar Org)
,,Abschied vom Meer" op.81 (SSA Bar Klav) Gedicht von Alphonse de Lamartine Leipzig, 1904
,,Neuweinlied" Text von O. J. Bierbaum (BB Klav)
,,Schneeglöckchen´s Tod" (SATB Klav)
,,Schottischer Schlachtgesang" Text nach Walther Scott (TB Klav)
,,Über der Heide hallet mein Schritt" (SSA Klav)
,,Vogels-Flug" Text Friedrich Hebbel (SA Klav)
,,Ausgleich" (Von einem reichen Rosengrab) Text M. Stona (AB Klav)
,,Liebesgruß" (Es grüßen dich die Blümelein )Text von Stine Andresen (AB Klav)
,,Abend am Meer" (Verklungen ist des Tages Schall) Text von Stine Andresen (SAB Klav)
,,Hinter den Tannen" (Sonnenschein auf grünem Rasen) Gedicht von Theodor Storm (SAB Klav)
,,Der Frühling kommt" (Freu dich, Geliebte, der Winter entweicht) Gedicht von G. Falke (SATB Klav)
,,Die Spinnerin" (SATB Klav)
,,Das Märchen vom Schnee" op.63 (SATB solo ST Sprecher Klav)
,,Meine Lust ist Leben" op.91 Gedicht von Peter Rosegger (SATB soloA Klav)

Choral Works A Capella:
,,Vier Motetten" op.79SATB
Sehet, sehet, so stirbt der Gerechte
Ein Gebet Dich, (Herr, erkenn´ich im Sternendom)
Letztes Gebet (Ich habe mich dich hingegeben) Gedicht von Gottfried Kinkel
Siehe, ich stehe vor der Tür und klopfe an, Leipzig, 1903
,,Ave Maria" (SATB)
,,Gott rüstet den Gerechten mit Kraft" (SSAATTBB)
,,Bereitet dem Herrn den Weg" (SSATB)
,,Stütze dich auf mich" (SATB)
,,Zwei humoristische Gesänge" op.69 (TTBB) Leipzig, 1897
,,Frisch mein Lied" op.69a (TTBB) Text von J. Mosen Leipzig, 1903
,,Zwei Augen" op.82 (TTBB) Text von A. Blumauer 1908
,,Abendfeier" (Wie ist der Abend so traulich) Text aus Psalter und Harfe von Spitta (SATB)
,,Ergebung" (Ich nehme was du mir bestimmst) Text von Spitta (SATB)
,,Es zieht den hellen Strom hinunter" Gedicht von Ludwig Frankl (SATB)
,,Frühlingswunder" (Sieh, der Winter ist vergangen) Text von Spitta (SATB)
,,Herbstlied" (Schön im goldnen Ährenkranz hat der Sommer uns geblüht) Text von Friedrich Rückert (SATB)
,,Im Sommer" (Im Garten blühn die Rosen) Gedicht von Stine Andresen (SATB)
,,Kuckusruf" (Drei Mägdlein gingen im grünen Wald) Gedicht von Gustav Duill (SATB)
,,Lebensschluß" (Den nur nenne den Glücklichen) Gedicht von Jacob Balde (SATB)
,,Neujahrslied" Text Emil Gött (SATB)
,,Die Vöglein im Frühling" (Vöglein singen, Vöglein springen wieder froh) Text von Weickert (SSB bzw. SSA)
,,Vier Volkslieder" (SATB):
Mit Fuß und Augen (wenn alle Brünnlein fließen)
Aus der Farm (Soll ich dich denn nimmer sehen)
Nachtlied (Die Erde ruht, der Himmel wacht) Text von Aug. Mahlmann
Im Wald (Im Wald, im Wald ist Luft und Fried) frz. Volkslied, Text von Béranger
,,Brennende Liebe" (In meinem Garten lachet manch Blümelein) Text von Mosen (SSA)
,,Drei Stücke für Frauenchor" (SSA)
Schelmliedchen (Am Teiche flüstern Schilf und Rohr)
Was Liebchen alles ist (Heller Vogelsang tönt im grünen Wald )
Vor den Türen (Ich habe geklopft) Gedicht von Fr. Rückert (SATB)
,,Wie lieblich sind die Boten" Gedicht von Fr. Rückert (SATB)
,,Sieben Stücke für gemischten Chor a cappella (SATB):
Der Wind, Text: W. Osterwald Noten
Die Diebin, Text: Lessing
Paulinzelle
Der Heini von Steyer Text aus der Aventiure von Joseph Victor von Scheffel
Wendisches Volkslied
Liebeslied (portugiesisch)

plus others...

Not a bad life's work, eh? At the moment only a few of his chamber works have been recorded. They reveal a composer of great skill, working within the received conservative tradition. Does anyone else have any experience of his music or extra knowledge of him?

[Mark Thomas]

Ye Gods, the man makes Raff look like a work-shy lazybones! Seriously, everything which I have heard of Thieriot's (and that isn''t much admittedly) is a delight. Somewhere online - I can't find the link just now - there are electronic realisations of his Loch Lomond Overture and a movement from one of the Piano Concertos. Not great sonically, but they do give you an idea...

[Alan Howe]

Well, he did live to be 81 - a good twenty years longer than Raff. But what a catalogue! If even a fraction of it is as good as what we have already, then we have a major undiscovered composer...

[eschiss1]

*adds Cello concerto no.1 in F major, op.97 (pub.1915 by Rieter-Biedermann) to that list... it seems to have dropped out somehow. Date from HMB.* (There's a shorter list at http://imslp.org/wiki/List_of_compositions_by_Ferdinand_Thieriot that contains at least that one item that escaped their attention, though merging the two lists' contents, in different languages per site, is not a bad idea.)

"Streichquartett G-Dur, op.84, Winterthur, 2005"  (Amadeus-Verlag)? Worldcat listings for that item (a posthumous publication of a work left in manuscript) don't give it any opus number... bit confused there... there -is- an Amadeus republication of the flute quartet op.84 , republished by Amadeus-Verlag in 2003, but as a flute quartet. The G major string quartet published in 2005 is a newly published work from manuscript w/o opus number. (Rather like the 1-and-change quartets by Thuille they published a decade or so before, I think.)

[Alan Howe]

Thanks, Eric.
I am currently listening to Thieriot's mellifluous Octet in B flat, Op.62 (on Arte Nova, coupled with the Piano & Winds Quintet, Op.80). This is marvellous, expertly crafted music, but never bland - and not without darker moments which intrude every now and again. If you like Gernsheim, for example, you'll love Thieriot too!

Here's a description at Edition Silvertrust:

Octet in B Flat, Op.62
For 2 Violins, Viola, Cello, Bass, Clarinet, Horn & Bassoon

Although not published until 1893, the Octet was composed some twenty years before. It dates from Thieriot's time in Graz and is in the grand tradition of the  Schubert Octet and of Beethoven's Op.20 Septet. It would not be an exaggeration to say that these two works served as the "god parents" for Thieriot's Octet, which shares much in common with both, including the same instrumentation as the Schubert Octet. The opening movement, Poco adagio--Allegro non troppo with its short, show introduction leading to a lyrical and lilting main theme is reminiscent of the Op.20 Beethoven Septet. The second movement, entitled Intermezzo, un poco vivace, begins in the spirit of a Schumann scherzo, but the trio section with its lovely writing for the horn and clarinet again brings back echoes of Op.20. Without question, the Octet's center of gravity is its middle movement, Adagio molto mesto. It begins with a long solo for the cello, followed then by another for the clarinet. The climax is reached after the gorgeous and moody solo for the horn (our sound-bite). Next comes a Schmannesque Scherzo, Allegro vivace. It is energetic, syncopated and full of forward motion. The finale, Allegro moderato, harks back to Schubert and is filled with lovely melodies and rich ideas.

This is truly a masterpiece from the mid-romantic period. Perfect in every way, the writing for all of the instruments shows the hand of a real master. The Octet belongs on the concert stage and ought to be given serious consideration by professional groups. Despite its superb quality, it does not require a virtuoso technique from any of the players and is sure to delight amateur groups as well.

[Alan Howe]

Here's a link to the sleevenotes accompanying the release on Toccata of Thieriot's String Sextet in D, Piano Quintet in D, Op.20 and Theme and Variations for two cellos and piano, Op.29...
http://www.toccataclassics.com/cms/uploads/CyberLabel/documents/doctype/liner_notes/TOCC0080-notes-en.pdf

[albion]

It is truly heartening to see such sustained and fervent advocacy for an 'unsung' and (given the comprehensive work-list) largely hitherto-unrecorded composer - long may this pioneering spirit continue.

[Alan Howe]

The advantage that we have with Thieriot is that there is a fair amount of information about the quality of the man and his music; in other words, we have a bit of a head start.

With Martin Anderson of Toccata evidently convinced of his merits, we can look forward to further volumes in the future...

Here's MusicWeb's review of the first Toccata CD...

http://www.musicweb-international.com/classrev/2010/June10/Thieriot_TOCC0080.htm

[albion]

What is the current knowledge regarding the survival of the operatic, orchestral, concertante and choral works?

[eschiss1]

The full score of opus 13 Loch Lomond is at IMSLP, I think. Albis-Verlag published the full score of the B-flat major piano concerto in 2003. Full Score of his Te Deum was published by Haale, Renaissance-Musikverlag in 2001 and is at Munich Library, likewise I think his organ concerto in F; (a? I need to check that list) Stabat Mater preceded from the same? publisher (different location) in 1999 (Sibley has this also).

[Alan Howe]

Thanks again, Eric.

[eschiss1]

Happily- hopefully the manuscripts are in a library somewhere, or have been tracked down, for the other works (as is easier to find out with some composers than others...)

Oh. "Not least because the archives containing his manuscripts were taken to Leningrad during the Second World War"...

[Alan Howe]

...the manuscripts were brought back to Hamburg in 1991, so it depends exactly what has survived. I imagine the Wiki articles are based on evidence from the archive there, but it would be good to have more information.

[Alan Howe]

I have duly sent an email to the library of Hamburg University...

[Mark Thomas]

Fleisher has the scores of the String Octet op.78, the Octet op.62 which is recorded on the Arte Nova CD, an orchestral Sinfonietta in E op.55 and a String Serenade in F op.44. The British Library has around 30 scores, including the Loch Lomond and Turandot Overtures and many chamber works (including several String Quartets) all of which seem to been modern editions, which is a very good sign. So I'm surprised, bearing that in mind, that there aren't more performances.