Scriabin: the symphonies.

[sdtom]

Is there a tie breaker?

[adriano]

You are right, Alan, I had always problems with those too "distant" or too "panoramic" Philadelphia acoustics - already during the Ormandy-CBS years... I reconfirm this since I've just bought Ormandy's 12-CD Tchaikovsky (bargain) box. But the orchestra is really splendid.
As far as the trumpet is concerned, Svetlanov used to make almost a trumpet concerto of "Poem of Ecstasy" :-)

[Alan Howe]

those too "distant" or too "panoramic" Philadelphia acoustics

I find the sound rather opaque: plenty of impact, but insufficient clarity. In comparison, the Decca recording in Berlin for Ashkenazy is far superior, but the performances don't have Muti's fire and passion.

[sdtom]

Getting back to my question of the best recording?

[adriano]

sdtom: try to find this out by yourself :-) our opinions are still personal ones.
There is nothing more exciting to discover a piece of music and start loving it as if it would become a personal property - and cherish it all your life long.
In any case try out Muti, Kitaenko, Segerstam and why not, good old Golovanov (suppose you won't like the historical sound) - and the always more than reliable Svetlanov (3 versions!). Inbal is not bad either. Telling you this (but not more) since I have all these recordings im my collection (including the Akskenazy ones).

[Alan Howe]

For all three: Muti.

[adriano]

Yes, Alan :-)
After listening - and score comparing - of the Segerstam version, I can say that this is quite convincing, except in the 4th movement, which is dull and too slow. The second movement has fascinating dark colours which Muti does not need.
And here too, there are many passages for timpani, cymbals and glockenspiel which do not figure in the scores! Must find out with the help of my Russian friends what's about this - the critical edition ignores this subject completely! Tomorrow, my listening will continue :-)

[sdtom]

Thanks to Alan and Adriano for your input. I realize that I must find this out for myself and if I were a rich man monetarily I would buy them all. Right now as far as the first is concerned I have Pletnev and Golovschin. I prefer Pletnev. With the fourth I have Pletnev and Gergiev. On this one I've mixed feelings. I like the trumpet better in the Pletnev but enjoy the Gergiev overall. It is a fine recording. The 3rd I only have the Gergiev and the 2nd nothing at this time. Historical recordings don't bother me at all. In fact I recently completed a review of the Lost Weekend and the sound quality was horrible but it was nice to have the original material. I'm not sure where the extra percussion material is but I hope you'll explain to us where. Pletnev offers a fine rendition of the second movement and it was well recorded by pentatone.

[adriano]

Hi sdtom.
Good to hear bravo!
Incidentally, the Pletnev is a Deutsche Grammophone recording from the 1990s, re-issued by Pentatone. They seem, apparently, being sponsored by businessman and composer Gordon Getty (J. Paul Getty's son) - that's why you can have at least 10 CDs with Getty's works on this label.
And there is even a connection to Pletnev: the Gettys also sponsored Pletnev's Tchaikovsky recordings for DGG (which are also being re-issued by Pentatone). I don't have his Scriabin DGG recordings, maybe they also were sponsored the same way...
Connections - connections - connections, that how money makes the world go round... The arts, unfortunately, need these too...
Strange too, the fact that those Tchaikovsky CD were first reissued as a bargain box by Universal/DGG and then later on at a much more expensive price by Pentatone.... An "in-between re-issue" on Brilliant would have been wishful thinking :-). Finally, who buys Pletnev as a conductor - except some aficionados?? Same story, presumably, with Ashkenazy and Barenboim... In other words, such "cases" always need thick sponsors, otherwise original labels would never risk one reissue after another...

[Alan Howe]

the Pletnev is a Deutsche Grammophone recording from the 1990s, re-issued by Pentatone

Actually, it isn't: it was recorded in March 2014, at DZZ Studio 5, Moscow. It was Symphony No.3 that Pletnev recorded back in the 90s for DG.

I'm also pretty sure that Pletnev has recorded Tchaikovsky's symphonies more than once. I have No.2 on Pentatone, recorded in Moscow in April 2011; his DG recording of the same work (according to Amazon) is dated March 1998. In addition, I'm certain that Pletnev has recorded Symphony No.6 three times: first for Virgin in the early 90s, secondly for DG around 1999 and lastly for Pentatone in 2011.

Pentatone do reissue recordings originally made earlier by other labels, but this is not, I think, the case with Pletnev's Scriabin or Tchaikovsky. Please tell me if I'm wrong...

[sdtom]

I have the original releases of the six Tchaikovsky symphonies plus overtures. They are overall good. Money is an issue many times.

[adriano]

Oh I see, Alan, in other words I was totally wrong about those Pentatones. But I bet, they were again sponsored by Pletenv's friend Getty.
Funny enough, in their advertising lists, they never say "recorded in...", but just "released in...", so I wonder if anyone in this forum may have a look at all of these discs' technical smallprints to confirm...
On the other hand, the covers state "Hybrid Multichannel" and "Super surround"; which was not the case of the DGG set.
In other words, this "re-issue" follows the old Karajan procedure: let's redo the whole as soon as we have new technologies. But those who bought the earlier set(s), will they buy again the new ones? And one still wonders why record labels are complaining about declining sales!
A quoted review, saying "This release is one of the finest of Pletnev's Tchaikovsky survey and for many will be a clear first choice especially if sound quality is a major consideration. Enthusiastically recommended!" is, indirectly, an understament and a sad confirmation how classical recordings are being approached and promoted today: enjoy the sound and put the performance on a second place.

[Alan Howe]

the old Karajan procedure: let's redo the whole as soon as we have new technologies

That's a good comparison.

As for recording dates, if the Tchaik 2/Pentatone CD (which I own) gives its recording date as 2014, we can be pretty sure that it is part of a second Pletnev cycle.

[adriano]

Now to the percussion parts of that absolutely wild and crazy (but magnificent) interpretation of Scriabin's First by Golovanov:
The original score has only timpani and glockenspiel as percussion instruments - used very dicreetly all over. Besides eliminating some, or introducing extra timpani passages, there are quite a few more suprizes: instead of using glockenspiel only in the 4th movement (as the MS indicates; there are glockenspiel passages in the 6th (choral) movement. Sometimes it even substitutes the flute, or just doubles it. And a lot of cymbals are used in there too! Incidentally, the climax section of this movement can be considered as a "pre-Poem-of-Ecstasy" section - and Golovanov enjoys emphazising this.

[semloh]

Adriano's descriptions make me wish I had the Golovanov 1st, when I have Svetlanov, and Svetlanov's 3rd when I have Golovanov! Maybe I got lucky when I bought Muti's 2nd. All good for that "wallow" that Alan mentioned, though