Havergal Confessional

[jerfilm]

I think I fall in with Alan on this one.   I first heard the Gothic years ago and thought, aha, another unsung composer to lighten my wallet.  But his development didn't seem to tickle my musical sensibilities.  I guess I've always been too much into melody and non dissonant harmony......

As for his being "sung" now, I expect that's gonna depend on where you are on the planet.  Certainly his exposure in Britain and on CDs is marvelous, but here in the colonies I don't see it happening.  I think the Minnesota might have played the Gothic once years ago.  But that's about it.  At least in this neck of the boondocks. 

But recognition is an elusive and strange thing and often comes slowly.  And so very dependent on who your particular music director is.  I think I've mentioned this before, if so forgive an old guy.  I clearly recall the first Bruckner symphony that I ever heard, the 7th, back in the '60s here in Minneapolis.  And as I was sitting there immersed; mesmerized by this gorgeous music and thinking "Why have I never heard this man's music before??". about a third of the audience was slowly, one by one and two by two, walking out of Northrup Auditorium during the performance.  But not anymore......

Funny how time changes things.

Jerry

[Dundonnell]

No, the Gothic has never been heard in the USA

There was a plan by the conductor and composer Sir Eugene Goossens to perform it at the 1935 Cincinnati Biennial Festival but the Depression put paid to that idea.

[hemmesjo]

about a third of the audience was slowly, one by one and two by two, walking out of Northrup Auditorium during the performance.  But not anymore......

Funny how time changes things.

Jerry,

Just to be sure.  Does this mean that people no longer walk out of a Bruckner concert or is Bruckner no longer programmed?

Dan

[eschiss1]

I don't think any US orchestra has performed the Gothic- that would be a fairly noticeable event- but according to my memory, backed up by Havergal Brian.org, the University of Illinois Symphony premiered the 23rd symphony. (And relatively major works by e.g. Weinberg, Holmboe and others have been performed each in both Canada and the US more recently, as in the last few years, but that's another subject entirely about the concert programming situation here as a whole and on average )

[fr8nks]

These comments remind me of an interesting story. Years ago, American Record Guide Magazine ran a feature entitled "Meet the Reviewer". It was a small paragraph depicting the likes and dislikes of the reviewers and one such article would appear every two months. This particular reviewer started by saying he was never really interested in classical music. He didn't hate it but he never became passioned by it until one day his wife gave him a copy of Prokofiev's Piano Concerto No.1 and told him to play it until he liked it. The rest was history.

[albion]

one day his wife gave him a copy of Prokofiev's Piano Concerto No.1 and told him to play it until he liked it.

[jerfilm]

To answer your question, Hemmesjo, I think at least one Bruckner has been programmed here in Minnesota for some years now.  And generally to thundering, standing ovations (a subject we thrashed out recently in another thread......)

And I don't recall seeing anyone walk out.  At least during the performance.  Of course, a Bruckner symphony is always the last half of the program (if not, in some cases, all of it) and if some leave at intermission, I wouldn't know that.  But they did the 7th a year or two ago and the place seemed to be full.  And it was the whole program.

Jerry

[Ser Amantio di Nicolao]

Jerry,

Just to be sure.  Does this mean that people no longer walk out of a Bruckner concert or is Bruckner no longer programmed?

Dan

They did one of the Bruckner symphonies here in DC a few years ago - it went as well as anything the NSO ever does.  (Which is to say, tepid as usual.)  Can't say as I enjoyed it very much, but that's my own personal taste speaking - I tend to prefer Mahler.

[Jimfin]

I was under the impression that the Gothic had never been performed outside the UK until the Brisbane performance in 2010. Unless one counts the recording sessions in Bratislava for the Marco Polo version. But I may be wrong

[eschiss1]

far as I know, that's right or most likely right, though I am no expert. Seems to be to the best knowledge of the Brian Society. See their page (and note that the page lists -two- performances of part I only, not one, nota bene - this would certainly explain the tape recording I have, which is of part I only but does not match the timings of Grove in any way, but ends in a part I-ish "concert ending" approved way - D major chord- rather than in a way that suggests that it's a full performance that was just cut off by the tape recorder.) The second is a rehearsal and runthrough at Olave's School, Orpington, Kent, UK conducted by Mark Fitzgerald, but if it was taped, as I am now guessing, I for one am now much enlightened. (I have only the first movement digitized atm, but can get the rest so in awhile if I find the tape, I guess.) (It seems to be the last (1984) performance the Gothic had before the Lenard (1989), Curro (2010) and Brabbins (2011).)

(Yes, yes, I know, enough already.)

[Dundonnell]

I was under the impression that the Gothic had never been performed outside the UK until the Brisbane performance in 2010. Unless one counts the recording sessions in Bratislava for the Marco Polo version. But I may be wrong

Your impression is quite correct

[thalbergmad]

but I trust you won't send me to Coventry for this quirk in my musical sensibilities!

Somewhere closer to Stoke-on-Trent might be more appropriate and besides, Coventry is reserved for under performing fletchers.

As for the composer in question, it is all too much for my feeble brain to cope with. I cannot think of anything in life that would hold my attention for 100 or so minutes, apart possibly from the Darts on BBC2. When I did listen to the "Gothic", it took me a few sessions and a few pints to get through it.

Incredibly, looking at the Brian website, even an "introductory" talk on his music by a certain Malcolm Macdonald lasts an astounding 58 minutes. Lord only knows what a full version amounts to.

I am of course delighted that this music seems to give pleasure to so many, but I think I will give it a miss until I am retired, made redundant, or trapped for the nth time on the Dartford Tunnel approach road.

Thal

[jerfilm]

Ser, I love Mahler as well.  He and Bruckner are SO different yet are probably my favorite "sungs"......


Well,  as I pointed out earlier, what we hear in our individual concert halls is not necessarily what you and I (or the season ticket holders for that matter) want to hear.  It all depends on what your music director (or Head Conductor or whatever he's called) wants to program.  Vanska loads us with Sibelius and Part.  For years I've begged them to do THE DREAM OF GERONTIUS before I die - and for 55 years they haven't.  They always plead silly things like, we can't get the performers together.  Which has to be BS.  We have an endless (well, almost endless...) supply of choruses - the U of M, Bach Society, Minnesota Chorale, St. Olaf College, etc. etc. all of whom I presume are delighted with the opportunity to sing with the orchestra.  So is it THaT hard to get, what is it? - 3 soloists for a week?   I had high hopes when Sir Neville was MD but even he did not program much British music.  Although he did conduct an Elgar 2nd that brought me to tears one night......

I ramble.  Sorry

Jerry

[eschiss1]

Speaking for myself only my "confession" is that I started with the - hrm. Probably the 31st symphony because at 14 minutes it fit quite neatly between my classes (as did Prokofiev's 1st piano concerto and Barber's opus 1 serenade for strings, each also less or rather less than 20-odd minutes, and the music library was just down the road from my department - math). On becoming acquainted with that I started - on the late and much lamented Sir Charles Mackerras' LP* - I started wanting to branch out.

* (Yes, yes, it's a CD now - has been in several incarnations; I've owned it, thought I've lost it, bought it again, found it . It was around 1990 and the university library - yes, I'm one of those horrible (Ex-)academics, I was a junior or senior then - had the LP. ) May have happened slightly differently - with the longer - 55 minutes - 3rd symphony instead of no.31 (quite possibly, since the Hyperion CD of the former was recorded 1988, released around 1989? and I remember seeing it in the university library's "new release" listings and being curious what it was all about, especially its "C-sharp minor" bit- which always would make me think "I wonder how it ends?...", back then so of course- had to borrow it. You know how it is.)
** Symphony 3.

[semloh]

.....
As for his being "sung" now, I expect that's gonna depend on where you are on the planet.  Certainly his exposure in Britain and on CDs is marvelous, but here in the colonies I don't see it happening.  I think the Minnesota might have played the Gothic once years ago.  But that's about it.  At least in this neck of the boondocks. 

But recognition is an elusive and strange thing and often comes slowly. 

I think you've given a good example of why the notion of an "Unsung Composer" is such a fascinating one, Jim. It raises all sorts of interesting issues...  perhaps that new thread is on the way! 

Eric - you seem to have done the sensible thing in going with the 31st initially, rather than doing what I did and start with the Gothic! 

It does seem that the Gothic is the one that moves people and represents the pinnacle of HB's symphonic achievements, it dominates evrything I read about HB and his music, and yet it is Symphony No.1 ..... so, was it a case of an initial massive outpouring of genius (as some view it) and then (some might say) a half-century of less inspired symphonies? I can't really get a grasp of his musical development - it seems to all be in reverse! 

Perhaps, the Brianites can put me straight on this.....