Raff piano music vol.1

[Mark Thomas]

The second volume of the Raff series is scheduled for release later this year and the third and final volume will come out early in 2013. I understand that the second volume of the Saint-Saëns and the next two volumes of the Weinberg series will be issued this year too. Incidentally I calculated that the "complete Raff piano music" would need about 45 CDs! Not as many as the 99 onto which Hyperion fitted Liszt's, but still too daunting a prospect to be realistic.

I'm not sure if Grand Piano is going to be a budget label, actually. It looks more like a mid or full price offering to me.

As for the quality of the sound, TerraEpon, I've heard the final mixes of the first two Raff CDs and the audio quality is exemplary. Obviously, the promotional video was made for display on YouTube at a later date than the CD recording sessions, which were at the superb Nimbus facility near Monmouth.

[eschiss1]

are there ... hrm, painful phrase construction- I should say not known but suspected (well, known, even) - to be as many unknown Raff piano works as was the case for Liszt? Well, maybe not as many, but - I recall all those considerations that led Howard to anticipate, in an interview about his project (again in Fanfare magazine, I'll try to look up the date- I have the issue somewhere I think...  - I don't have that many issues anymore left from my subscription and none in good shape from all the rereading )  well in advance that there would have to be - as there have indeed been already - several supplementary volumes - and they are not the end of the affair of course.

I hope to be able eventually to buy (download legally) a number of the 45ish-plus CDs (hopefully improved circumstances will allow) but also hope that a number of radio stations around the globe (e.g. Austria's fine Radio Stephansdom, which often plays Raff works; Concertzender Hilversum has broadcast quite a few too) will continue to thrive and webcast and will do so...

[Mark Thomas]

Let's start with that wonderful (and perfectly logical) Rumsfeld quote:

There are known knowns. These are things we know that we know. There are known unknowns. That is to say, there are things that we know we don't know. But there are also unknown unknowns. There are things we don't know we don't know.

To answer your question, Eric, the "known knowns" are works from the 1840s and 50s which are known to have been written but which we know were subsequently destroyed (in most cases) or lost - 17 works comprising 32 numbers. The "known unknowns" are the piano pieces from the same period which are mentioned in letters or other documents but for which no evidence of their actual composition, performance or destruction exists so they are assumed, but can't be proved, never to have been written - 8 works comprising 17 numbers at the last count. One of these from 1849 came to light last year, a manuscript of an Etude on Bellini's I Puritani which was found in a sheaf of Liszt organ music manuscripts in The Hague. Finally, there must of course be the "Unknown unknowns", and into that category neatly falls (or rather, fell) the rather fetching Fantaisie recorded on the first CD, which was found with the Bellini piece and about which nothing had been known before its discovery.

My estimate of 45 CDs includes all the works known to be still extant and includes Raff's four hands transcriptions of his own orchestral and chamber compositions and his transcriptions, fantasies and arrangements of the works of other composers. FWIW, it's a deliberately conservative estimate - Raff isn't a composer known for his brevity...

[Peter1953]

Every time a new Raff CD is going to be released it's nothing less than an exciting happening. It doesn't matter what genre it is. At least, this is the way I feel it. For me it proves again that Raff is very much more than just one of the many unjustified unsung composers. Raff's place is with the sungs, as I may say so (I know another composer who also belongs there, indeed, whose name also begins with an R  ).

[erato]

I guess Ries?

[Lionel Harrsion]

I guess Ries?

Or Röntgen?

[Jonathan]

...as there have indeed been already - several supplementary volumes - and they are not the end of the affair of course.

Hi eschiss1,
Sadly, Leslie Howard has said barring any major discoveries, the Liszt project is complete.  I think that's a real shame but I suppose you can't go on searching for ever (there is a list of missing works that was published in the Liszt Society Journal (UK) some years ago - it includes quintets and lots of chamber music, I assume this will never come to light due to the length of time elapsed)

Back to Raff piano music on Naxos; I have a problem with Naxos sometimes (I'm certain I've said this here before, maybe even recently) in that they start a series and then it stops, dead (e.g. Dohnanyi and Tchaikovsky, to name but two).  At least in this case, the CDs are due out fairly soon after the inception of the project.  I'm looking forward to all 3 of them already and the Saint-saens which I will buy despite having the Hyperion one which, agreeing with TerraEpon, is an excellent disc too (and the Vox is awful...) 

[JimL]

Every time a new Raff CD is going to be released it's nothing less than an exciting happening. It doesn't matter what genre it is. At least, this is the way I feel it. For me it proves again that Raff is very much more than just one of the many unjustified unsung composers. Raff's place is with the sungs, as I may say so (I know another composer who also belongs there, indeed, whose name also begins with an R  ).

OK, I'm in.  Rubinstein or Rufinatscha?

[eschiss1]

Well, I want to know what the statement means (actually, about time I should ask, after awhile on this forum- "sung", "should be sung"- maybe it's a reference to especially bel canto vocal music only and I didn't know... :^) ) I was going to guess at the answer too but then it occurred to me that I was guessing at the answer to a different question.

[TerraEpon]

re: Liszt
Of course one has to consider the sheer number of pieces are are recorded two/three/four times, sometimes with only minor changes (often times the only difference is the coda, or more commonly one playing the normal version and the other playing the ossia). IIRC it was originally estimated at something like 54 (!) discs.

Of course, outside of one piece (for some bizzare reason), none of Liszt's 4 hand music was included (if you're comparing to Raff's 45 CD estimate). Known how much of THAT there is, I'd wager another 30 discs at least could come of someone giving a recording project for it a go...

[Jonathan]

I know, it's such a shame it's not all been recorded but I've made suggestions to someone about recording the complete Liszt 4 hand and 2 piano works but have yet to have a definitive response.  I will of course keep you posted if I hear anything...

[TerraEpon]

Well Naxos seems to be including some in their complete Liszt, though of course being Naxos they are taking forever anyway (and probably not including much of the alternate stuff on the flip side)

[Alan Howe]

MDT are now advertising the CD for pre-order...
http://www.mdt.co.uk/MDTSite/product//GP602.htm
...the release date is 27th February.

[Mark Thomas]

Thanks, Alan.

[TerraEpon]

Huh. So it's not actually Naxos then, per se. It's full price (thus even less incentive to buy the Vol. 1 of Saint-Saens, despite the whole "well if you support it it'll mean there's interest and it'll continue" factor).