Memorability

[Peter1953]

A bit of philosophising. One of the features of good/beautiful music is (or could be) memorability of the theme(s). But the question is, is it really necessary that we, as a listener, require memorability so that we can criticise the music as successful?
I've just listened to the PCs of August Winding and Emil Hartmann (Danish Piano Concertos II). Not memorable to my ears, but I enjoyed it tremendously.
Any opinions?

[Mark Thomas]

For sustained enjoyment of most pieces I certainly seem to require melodic memorability. It's what takes me back to listen again to most music I love. There are a handful of works, though, where this doesn't seem to be the case and whilst I can't recall a note of the work, am left with an strong memory for the feeling of the piece. There are a couple of requiems by Cherubini, for instance, which are very powerful works and to which I often return. So often that I am rather surprised that I still can't recall any of their melodies.

[Jimfin]

Yes, agreed. I know I am falling for a piece when the melodies start to haunt my dreams (or waking hours), which sometimes happens quickly, sometimes far less so.

[eschiss1]

To paraphrase Thorpe-Davie, while the Waldstein sonata has a few memorable themes, does one forget everything up to the point where the first of them enter? (Not to mention the first prelude of the Bach WTC...) I can't help thinking this is an incomplete account of musical memorability...)

[semloh]

To paraphrase Thorpe-Davie, while the Waldstein sonata has a few memorable themes, does one forget everything up to the point where the first of them enter? (Not to mention the first prelude of the Bach WTC...) I can't help thinking this is an incomplete account of musical memorability...)

Yes, I think it's complicated. There are issues relating to the music itself, and others relating to the individual listener. The ability to recall themes is a strange phenomena - what always intrigues me is the fact that - as Eric suggests - recall may be restricted to limited passages of a piece of music, and yet once the music is playing the familiarity of the work materializes as the notes proceed - so I can whistle/hum along with the playing, anticipating what comes next - but stop the music and ask me to do that and I quickly get lost! When actually listening, each note acts as a stimulus to recall of the next.

In terms of enjoyment, a memorable theme or tune is by far the biggest factor for me, but I don't find that it's always required. I find joy in the keyboard works of Bach, Buxtehude, etc., for example, even if I am subsequently unable to recall a note of it. Occasionally, what is memorable is not a theme but a striking effect created by rhythm (e.g. in the Copland piano concerto, or Bernstein's Age of Anxiety), or an unusual sound effect or instrumentation (e.g. the 2nd movement of Khachaturian's piano concerto). Perhaps the overiding quality for me, is the extent to which a piece of music satisfies these expectations in the context of a sense of purposeful structure ... which is why I have a problem with much 20thC and avant garde music. 

[Balapoel]

I have greatly enjoyed music with themes that stay with me, and with themes that don't. But for the truly awe-inspiring, they tend to have very memorable themes. Two of the greatest in my book are:

Ihr habt nun Traurigkeit from Brahms' German Requiem, and
Trois Beaux Oiseaux Du Paradis, from Ravel - if you haven't heard the latter, try http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wWgG41hlM7c (2nd in the group of trois chansons)

[John H White]

I seem to be in the same position as most of the posters on this thread. One particular tune that stuck in my head for around 40 years after just one hearing on the "wireless"(as we used to call it in those days) before I was able to track it down on a second hand LP, was the march from Raff's Lenor Symphony. I also remembered a snippet from the second movement but I had completely forgotten all about the 2 outer movements. I'm also a great admirer of the scherzo from the same composer's Second Symphony but, despite having copied out the music note by note into Noteworthy software, I've no idea how it goes. All I can say is that I regard it, along with that from Walton's First Symphony, as one of the cleverest ever written.

[Lionel Harrsion]

after just one hearing on the "wireless"(as we used to call it in those days)....

Some of us still do!

[eschiss1]

Very belatedly re August Winding, don't know if there's any interest at all (haven't heard it, I think), but I found an autograph score of that piano concerto scanned in by the Danish Royal Library, along with a number of other works (two other orchestral works in ms, and some of the chamber works that were already available in published scores via Sibley.)

[Amphissa]

This topic is actually more complex that it seems on the surface. Exactly what is a melody? And has our understanding of melody evolved as harmony and tonality have evolved? Is a musical line that seems lyrical, beautiful and memorable for one person just an atonal bunch of notes for another? If the music does not "stick" the first time because it has no real "tune," but on subsequent hearings you gain a memory of the overall, even though you cannot remember the exact sequence of notes, are you remembering a melody, or is it more like an emotional picture? And what the heck does that mean?

The dictionary definition of melody is simply "a sequence of notes that is satisfying." Well, what is satisfying for one person may be an empty plate for another, yet both may remember it for completely different reasons. What are we to do with Debussy? Are there "melodies" in Strauss' Four Last Songs or RVW's 8th Symphony? If you say "yes," do you think audiences of the 1870s would agree?

Personally, a lot of music that lacks old-fashioned tunes is yet quite memorable to me because of the soundworld created by the composer, and I can enjoy them even though they lack traditional Romantic era 19th-Century types of tunes.

[Alan Howe]

What are we to do with Debussy?

Well, there are plenty of easily recognisable and memorable tunes in his music, aren't there? Prélude à l'après-midi d'un faune, Golliwog's Cakewalk and the opening of the String Quartet immediately spring to mind...

[Gauk]

I think part of the importance of memorability is not so much whether one likes having tunes that go round and round in one's head after the music has finished (which can be irritating sometimes), but how much it aids comprehension of the musical argument. A problem with much modern music is that, while there might be thematic material in the form of a tone row, it is so hard to pick this up that one can't recognise its repetition, never mind in inversion. Therefore the whole piece passes by as unremarkable sequences of notes.

With romantic music, on the other hand, a problem I sometimes have is that, for instance, in the first movement of a symphony, the second subject will be memorable, while the first is much less so, and I find myself only realising the recapitulation has arrived when the second subject turns up.

But when a composer has strong themes throughout, then (a) the musical structure is much easier to follow in general, and (b) one stands a chance of spotting tricks like inversions and retrograde subjects by unaided ear.

[thalbergmad]

Very belatedly re August Winding, don't know if there's any interest at all (haven't heard it, I think)

You simply must listen to this my friend. It is included in the Danish Piano Concerto Series and is in the 2nd volume along with the Winding Concert Allegro and the Hartmann PC.

Memorable indeed.

Thal

[kolaboy]

What are we to do with Debussy?

Well, there are plenty of easily recognisable and memorable tunes in his music, aren't there? Prélude à l'après-midi d'un faune, Golliwog's Cakewalk and the opening of the String Quartet immediately spring to mind...

Debussy certainly found Berlioz's Scene Aux Champs memorable...

[JimL]

Very belatedly re August Winding, don't know if there's any interest at all (haven't heard it, I think)

You simply must listen to this my friend. It is included in the Danish Piano Concerto Series and is in the 2nd volume along with the Winding Concert Allegro and the Hartmann PC.

Memorable indeed.

Thal

I need to listen to this one more.  It has immensely appealing tunes.  My biggest problem seems to be melodic overload.  I can listen to these melodies and think to myself that they're instantly memorable, but I can't recall them a scarce few hours later.  But the Winding concerto is definitely repertory-worthy, as Grieg-inspired as it may sound (the two concertos are almost exact contemporaries).  Winding was another Reinecke pupil.