Copyright etc., topically January 2012

[eschiss1]

I was unable to follow a link a couple of days ago, and found out yesterday that the likely reason was because the website, megaupload (which is used by only two people who have accounts here, I think- at least, a really quick search only finds two links to it on this whole site...) is presently the subject of a lawsuit and was indeed shut down 2 days ago (see Wikipedia article e.g.)

Any thoughts whatsoever?
(And yes, I know we attempt to avoid copyright violation as much as possible. Actual copyright violation is one thing, perceived copyvio however... anyways. That's one thought, if fragmentary )

[kolaboy]

The "bills" currently before congress are poorly written, over-reaching, and should fail.

[semloh]

The "bills" currently before congress are poorly written, over-reaching, and should fail.

Eric, I'm pleased to started this thread, as issues of copyright affect us all, and the music business in general.

At first glance of the Indictment, I agree with you, kolaboy. Personally, I think it is an attempt by the US DoJ to bully providers and frighten the general public, and is fuelled by the big business interests of the mega-rich in the US film and music industry. I am amazed that it has taken place before the legislation has been finalized. I'm not sure what law entitles the New Zealand government to arrest and detain the executive managers of MU, but detained they are - at least when I checked yesterday!

It is certainly a very dangerous strategy from the FBI's point of view. Firstly, because it is untimely in relation to the legislation, and therefore could fail - in which case it will set a precedent and open the floodgates; secondly, because, the MU people are billionaires and will have the very best lawyers fighting their case, and may win or at least expose the inadequacies and errors in the FBI's case; and, thirdly, because it provokes a counterproductive reaction -  and, indeed, I see there is already a string of new providers taking the place of MU - for every one they try to shut down, many more will start up, often beyond the reach of the US.

I am sure we all have our views about these matters, but I believe that as far as copyright goes - for good or ill - the genie is out of the bottle, and policing it is already impossible. The action of the FBI reminds me of Eliot Ness and his men valiantly smashing up illegal stills during Prohibition! 

[TerraEpon]

If you want to be technical, most of the LP rips uploaded here are copyvios (more for some countries than others). I'm not quite as sure about radio broadcasts, though I'm sure they are technically as well.
The fact that they are what they are, as it were, means pretty no one is really going to care, though.

[Mark Thomas]

In the UK, the speed limit on motorways (freeways) is 70 mph. Most cars are driven at between 75-80 mph. The police quite openly say that the likelihood of anyone being prosecuted for driving under 80 mph on a motorway is very, very low but above that drivers are fair game.

It seems to me that the digital copyright arena is in the same situation. Technically, if I rip a CD to my iPlayer I'm infringing copyright. Uploaded rips of long-defunct LPs probably are, uploads of broadcasts might be, uploaded rips of current CDs certainly are. There's a test of reasonableness slowly and clumsily evolving. I have no truck with the giant entertainment companies and porn barons, but they do have a point: they should be able to protect the copyright of their current material. They're trying to do it in a very heavy handed and unsophisticated way at present, but it has to be accepted that MegaUpload and the plethora of other filesharing sites out there (Including MediaFire for all I know) do host a huge amount of blatantly illegal copies of current material, which anybody can find with a few minutes googling.

Our policy is not to host anything ourselves and to drive at about 72 mph.

[eschiss1]

Technically, if I rip a CD to my iPlayer I'm infringing copyright.

Had (relatively temporarily) forgotten that part. I am going to guess that they presently enforce this as they enforce some other things, to lengthen existing lists of charges against people in civil or criminal court (my terminology is not good and I know it), but I don't know. And it does seem nonsensical to me (and decreases respect for the law, I speak seriously enough there- echoing what has been said at other times in other - admittedly more serious - contexts.)

[thalbergmad]

Every week for the last 8 years a little Chinese chap with bags full of pirate DVD's walks up the stairs at my place of work and tries to sell 3 for £10. He tours the whole Town for 5 days a week and not once has he even been approached by the Police. I anticipate that every town in England has a similar little Chinese chap and the loss to the Copyright holders must be billions.

I therefore find the closure of a file sharing site to be slightly overboard, especially when you consider the amount of legitimate files that have been wiped off the face of the Earth. Only today I read an e mail from someone who has now lost 200gb of legitimate files that he will find difficult to replace.

Not sure where all this will lead, but I think a bunch of nerds like us exchanging copies of 40 year old LP's are reasonably far down the list of offenders.

Thal

[jerfilm]

My suspicion is that the "loss" to the entertainment industry is, as is often the case, over-hyped.  The folks who are buying the 3 for 10 DVDs are in all likelihood not folks who would pay 15 each for them.  That doesn't make it right, of course, but those sales do not represent a "real" loss to the copyright owner.  Couple that with the number of sites that now offer streaming movies as part of a pretty inexpensive subscription or membership - such as NetFlix - and you wonder who's really buying DVDs anymore??

Jerry

[TerraEpon]

I just get DVDs from the public library myself. For free.

But yeah, I've always hated the "x people DLed it, that's a loss of y!" because it's stupid to assume everyone would have payed for it. Some? Sure. Many more, probably at a lower price. Many would never have. And then there's plenty who'll go and buy because they like it (imagine that).

[violinconcerto]

Not sure where all this will lead, but I think a bunch of nerds like us exchanging copies of 40 year old LP's are reasonably far down the list of offenders.

Thal

Isn't that what every copyright violater thinks...?

And you can turn it upside down:
Especially because the music we like here is heard by so few people, we are violating the copyrights holders far more than others, because the small classical music labels need everyone to buy the CD to get the money they need. On the other hand Lady Gaga is selling millions of CDs and even more downloads regularly, she doesn't care if I am ripping the file illegally...

I think you should not try to trivialise the downbload section here: Face it - every one here downloading files is commiting crime. OK, nobody is interested to punish that (nice to hear), but anyway crime is crime.

Tobias

[thalbergmad]

And you can turn it upside down:
Especially because the music we like here is heard by so few people, we are violating the copyrights holders far more than others, because the small classical music labels need everyone to buy the CD to get the money they need.

There have been no CD's shared here. Everything has been either deleted LP's or radio broadcasts.

Small classical music labels have probably earned a fortune from the members of this site. Or at least they have from me as I constantly buy works I never would have considered if it were not for suggestions from others.

Thal

[Mark Thomas]

Thank you Thal, that's pretty much the way I look at it.

[violinconcerto]

There have been no CD's shared here. Everything has been either deleted LP's or radio broadcasts.

And you know that no record label will now or at any point in the future release these recordings on CD?
I don't want to accuse anybody here and be the upholder of moral standards, but I really don't like this self-concept of "We are doing here just the right thing". Actually - no, downloading a file is incorrect and uploading is even worse! I think we should at least stand to the injustice of the download section.

I know, I know, you don't have to say it, its just my opinion!

Best,
Tobias

[JimL]

And you can turn it upside down:
Especially because the music we like here is heard by so few people, we are violating the copyrights holders far more than others, because the small classical music labels need everyone to buy the CD to get the money they need.

There have been no CD's shared here. Everything has been either deleted LP's or radio broadcasts.

Small classical music labels have probably earned a fortune from the members of this site. Or at least they have from me as I constantly buy works I never would have considered if it were not for suggestions from others.

Thal

Not only that, Tobias, but when it becomes known that any of the downloads have at any time been available as CDs they have been taken down as quickly as possible.  I don't see any crime here at all now.  How 'bout you?

[Mark Thomas]

I don't want to get into an argument here. Tobias, I entirely respect your opinion but I don't share it.