Lachner Symphony No.6

[terry martyn]

I was just thinking the same. And it would not be before time,as I can´t think of any other  symphonic composer of his stature so shamefully neglected.

[Alan Howe]

I'd say Thieriot is even more scandalously neglected: there's not even a single recording of one of his symphonies - closely followed, say, by Abert, of whose symphonies only No.4 has ever appeared on CD.

As I've said before, although I eagerly snap up every new release of a Lachner symphony, I've never been blown away by any of them. To me his material too often can't bear the weight of the contrapuntal/developmental processes he puts it through. The result is frequently too repetitive and ultimately self-defeating - and just too long.

I'm now anxiously waiting to find out whether No.6 will finally 'do it' for me - as, for example, Rufinatscha's 1st (1834) always does:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=95dE7Mu-KcE
Much more exciting - and original - than anything FL wrote - IMvHO, of course.

[Ilja]

I respectfully disagree: the extensive development of seemingly mundane (but fun!) thematic material is the unique selling point of Lachner's symphonies. Sure, it's not as "serious" as other people's work, but it's always interesting.

[Gareth Vaughan]

I'd say Thieriot is even more scandalously neglected

I most heartily agree, Alan. I have liked everything I know by Thieriot. Lachner is interesting, yes - but he does go on a bit sometimes (especially in Symphony No. 5, which really is too long for its material - 6 is much better; 4 too, I would suggest).

[Alan Howe]

but it's always interesting.

Really? Mundane material made interesting through clever developmental processes? I know this is a matter of opinion, but this sounds more like a recipe for boredom...

Anyway, I've ordered the new cpo release and look forward to being proved wrong.

[terry martyn]

If you are prepared to listen to the whole of the Fifth, and then play it again immediately after,you might find,as I have, that the work becomes mesmerizing. For me, it is not a moment too long, and I would have been willingly one of the Viennese jury to award it the prize over Nicolai´s engaging,spirited,work. As to the Ries effort, it does not move me in the way that Lachner succeeds in doing. 

The harp concerto arrived tonight, and ,as promised, I will give you my first impressions of that CD on a new thread...........

[Alan Howe]

If you are prepared to listen to the whole of the Fifth, and then play it again immediately after

Oh, I've done so, but there's only so much working-out of the workaday material one can take. I admire the ambition, but there's just no inspiration.

Guess who said this of Symphony No.3...?
<<Consider the scherzo (placed second). It's a witty essay in contrapuntal textures, ear-catching at first, but twelve minutes later, when it's still bustling away, you want to kill yourself.>>. (Strictly no googling!)

[Gareth Vaughan]

Sounds like Hurwitz.

[eschiss1]

Alan, I always assume your opinion is very Honest!
For whatever reason, I did take to symphony no.6 from the start (except for the possibly unintended harsh dissonances in the performance I was listening to , which I should try to check against the score- a work which reminds me at its best of the more joyous and better parts of Schubert 9 (not my favorite work by not my favorite composer, but it certainly -has- its points) has something going for it. The skipping/French-overture-ish rhythmic section with its very interesting harmonic shifts, maybe.
By the way, "working out" is not (just) a matter of "let's find interesting contrapuntal combinations". Otherwise there'd be no difference between the Baroque and Romantic eras. Our remit may claim that dissonance is something to be avoided if at all possible (!), but given that we're not just reviewing Czerny etudes, it's a matter of the how, not the whether, and the reharmonization and rerythmicis... not going to _try_ that - is part of its working out too- and leads to wonderful results, not boring reassembly. (Not that a good work based on contrapuntal technique is boring- if it is, it's not a _good_ work. But that's a separate issue...)

[eschiss1]

(And yes, while I have a higher opinion of some of Lachner's themes, putting that aside and using a well-known example of the other thing; I've been listening lately to not just Stradal's but a number of other arrangements of Liszt symphonic poems, because. Sometimes the piano, duet, organ or trio ensemble gives some added clarity to my listening. Some of Liszt's themes considered as they are on their first appearance would not necessarily take much repetition; lovely though the secondary theme of Die Ideale is, without the harmonic and other variation he subjects it to, there might be trouble. Some other themes don't -need- such assistance, but when in one of the poems he takes a lovely very brief detour into a foreign key (somehow slightly presaging the page into D-flat just before the coda of Bruckner 9/i?...) - who cares if he really needed it, what matters is the beauty of it. Etc.)

[Alan Howe]

Sounds like Hurwitz.

I only quote him when I agree with him!

[Alan Howe]

and leads to wonderful results, not boring reassembly

Would that were the case with Lachner. Anyhow, I'm awaiting a sudden and glorious epiphany with the arrival of the cpo/L6 from jpc sometime next week...

Epiphany: candidate for Word of the Day?

[eschiss1]

It probably isn't; he's not Liszt. I honestly miss college, where I could actually make an analogy... it was the last time in my life where people seemed to understand these things have things in common and contrast was not the same as these things are identical

[Alan Howe]

[Ilja]

Sounds like Hurwitz.

I only quote him when I agree with him!

Although I confess to be rather smitten with Lachner's Third (while acknowledging its faults), I also don't think the Sixth will provoke quite the same urge to self-harm - judging by Gerd's realization it's a fair deal more compact, and better able to sustain tension. I found it lively enough in its synthetic form, and hope that Schmallfuss and the Evergreen SO will imbue it with more still in their performance.


By the way, I think that Robinson's version of the Fifth Symphony does it few favours - it's already a long work, and those languid tempos dont't help at all.