Rheinberger Piano Quartet Op.38

[febnyc]

I have heard a lot of chamber music during my relatively long lifetime, but none I think more attractive than this work.  Can one name a more beautiful opening movement anywhere?  If anyone has nominations - I'd be happy to receive them.

[eschiss1]

His string quintet?

[petershott@btinternet.com]

Well, I don't think anyone is going to rise to that particular challenge! But I'd agree - it is an especially lovely work. And surely so incredibly well written. There is a considerable amount of Rheinberger chamber music, and within its own terms I rate all that I've heard as top notch stuff.

Why, 'within its own terms'? Well, Rheinberger wasn't a revolutionary figure seeking to transform traditional forms and language, or to astonish with originality and innovation. Rather I suppose he aspires to write the most incredibly well crafted music and in so doing to bring us an especial delight and satisfaction. And perhaps contrary to the tenets of Romanticism, I don't think there is necessarily anything inferior or second rate about that. (Not every composer can be a Liszt - and heaven help us if they were.)

Many have denigrated him for being a backward looking, dull and academic figure. Backward looking, yes, because he obviously worshipped the tradition in which he wrote. Dull? Never, or rather hardly ever since I do find those pieces for organ and violin a bit routine. In contrast, the Piano Trios are gems and it is tragic there are only four of them. For me, another high point of Rheinberger is the Op. 139 Nonet. How many other composers can write such a lovely and fluent work for flute, oboe, clarinet, bassoon, horn, violin, viola, cello and double bass? Again, the Sextet in F major (a reworking of the last Piano Trio) is a delightful work. I suppose a composer who writes a lot of organ music for performance in church does - quite unfairly - get branded a reactionary within music history by those with both eyes staring into the future and oblivious to a sideways or backwards glance.

Apologies, I've moved away from the question and have instead collapsed into producing a mere list which any fool can do! I've become an enthusiastic waver of Rheinberger's flag given a slow but steady exploration of the recent 10 CD set of the piano music given by Jurg Hanselmann. Would be silly to try to encapsulate the quality of all the piano music into a few words - but again some real utter gems in that box!

[Alan Howe]

I have heard a lot of chamber music during my relatively long lifetime, but none I think more attractive than this work.  Can one name a more beautiful opening movement anywhere?  If anyone has nominations - I'd be happy to receive them.

Right - this is my listening challenge for tomorrow. Thanks for throwing down the gauntlet! (BTW I too have a soft spot for Rheinberger's chamber music - ever since I splashed out and bought the complete set on Thorofon).

More anon...

[TerraEpon]

I have heard a lot of chamber music during my relatively long lifetime, but none I think more attractive than this work.  Can one name a more beautiful opening movement anywhere?  If anyone has nominations - I'd be happy to receive them.

Chaminade Piano Trio #1?

[JimL]

I've always had a soft spot for the opening movement of Thalberg's Trio in A, Op. 69.  But, not having heard the Rheinberger, that's all I can put forward as my favorite so far.

[febnyc]

Thanks to all you Rheinberger fans.  I will be interested to see (and, then, hear) any more competitors put forth from the gallery. (Recordings of the above-cited entrants are on my shelves and very much appreciated - and, although thoroughly enjoyed, fall short of the mark here for me.)

I could take up my own gauntlet and mention another favorite - although firmly in the sung category.  That would be the opening movement of Brahms' Piano Trio No.1 in B Major.  That soaring theme always grabs me.

[eschiss1]

There's another thread (I think it's been tried before, though it could use better "definition") in that last- for the moment I would just say that your raising the Brahms' opus 8 opening - in the revised, better-known version  - ...actually, there might be three or four threads in there, hence my parenthetical proviso! (If you've heard the Brahms opus 8 in the original -well, yes, the opening theme is the same- strictly speaking, for the strictest meaning of theme, for those few moments before the violin comes in with an interjection that - well... erm. I think MacDonald in his book on Brahms covered the differences between the versions pretty well... (see IMSLP for a summary) but MacDonald's is a very good book generally if I may recommend it. As to favorite Brahms chamber opening movements, opus 8/version ii is high on my list- but opus 26 (piano quartet in A) is higher still, along with the first violin sonata. Opus 8 version i I find interesting but Brahms was doing better than that those days (1853-4), with works like the other nine first published opus nos. (three piano sonatas, variations, the Ballades, the scherzo, songs) etc.) The 2nd (1st written of the 3 published...) piano sonata (1852) is maybe the "closest" in general-erm- "what?..."-ness ("where did this come from"?... ... coda to the finale, etc. ...) to the first version of the trio ... )

[febnyc]

There's another thread (I think it's been tried before, though it could use better "definition") in that last- for the moment I would just say that your raising the Brahms' opus 8 opening - in the revised, better-known version  - ...actually, there might be three or four threads in there, hence my parenthetical proviso! (If you've heard the Brahms opus 8 in the original -well, yes, the opening theme is the same- strictly speaking, for the strictest meaning of theme, for those few moments before the violin comes in with an interjection that - well... erm. I think MacDonald in his book on Brahms covered the differences between the versions pretty well... (see IMSLP for a summary) but MacDonald's is a very good book generally if I may recommend it. As to favorite Brahms chamber opening movements, opus 8/version ii is high on my list- but opus 26 (piano quartet in A) is higher still, along with the first violin sonata. Opus 8 version i I find interesting but Brahms was doing better than that those days (1853-4), with works like the other nine first published opus nos. (three piano sonatas, variations, the Ballades, the scherzo, songs) etc.) The 2nd (1st written of the 3 published...) piano sonata (1852) is maybe the "closest" in general-erm- "what?..."-ness ("where did this come from"?... ... coda to the finale, etc. ...) to the first version of the trio ... )

Response - with all due respect to the knowledgeable poster - Huh?

PS - I certainly hope you get paid on a per-parenthesis basis.   

[erato]

That would be the opening movement of Brahms' Piano Trio No.1 in B Major.  That soaring theme always grabs me.

My favorite trio opening.

I have - and enjoy a lot - the Rheinberger piano set on 10 discs from Carus. This thread has given me lots of inspiration for further exploration. Thanks a lot.

[eschiss1]

febnyc- was sleepy, will travel, I mean, rewrite. apologies.

[Alan Howe]

OK - here are some candidates for inclusion in the category (unsung) 'beautiful opening movements':
1.  Fuchs Piano Trio 1
2.  Fuchs Piano Quartet 1
3.  Gernsheim Piano Quartet 1
4.  Gernsheim Piano Quartet 3
5.  Gernsheim Piano Quintet 1
6.  Gernsheim Piano Quintet 2
7.  Raff Piano Quintet
8.  Draeseke String Quartet 2
9.  Draeseke Quintet Op.48
10.  Georg Schumann Piano Trio 1
11.  Reinecke Piano Quintet
12.  Reinecke String Trio

[febnyc]

OK - here are some candidates for inclusion in the category (unsung) 'beautiful opening movements':
1.  Fuchs Piano Trio 1
2.  Fuchs Piano Quartet 1
3.  Gernsheim Piano Quartet 1
4.  Gernsheim Piano Quartet 3
5.  Gernsheim Piano Quintet 1
6.  Gernsheim Piano Quintet 2
7.  Raff Piano Quintet
8.  Draeseke String Quartet 2
9.  Draeseke Quintet Op.48
10.  Georg Schumann Piano Trio 1
11.  Reinecke Piano Quintet
12.  Reinecke String Trio

Have 'em all - save for the Georg Schumann work.  Now I gotta lotta listening to do!

Thanks (I think  )

[DennisS]

Thank you febnyc for drawing my attention to this lovely work. It's fast becoming one of my favourite piano quartets.

Cheers
Dennis

[chill319]

I would nominate the first movement of Thuille's hauntingly lyrical Sextet for Piano and Winds, opus 6.