Overview of Röntgen’s Symphonies

[Peter1953]

Röntgen's Symphonies are listed by Dr Jurjen Vis as follows:

No. 1 in G major, op. 48 (Jan.-Feb. 1872)
No. 2 in F minor / A major, op. 67 (Dec. 1874-March 1875, reconstructed Oct.-Dec. 1875 and ever since it's in A major)
No. 3 in C minor (30 Sep. 1910)
No. 4, Sinfonietta humoristica, (24 Nov. 1922)
No. 5 in A minor, Der Schnitter Tod, (30 May 1926)
No. 6, Rijck God, wie sal ic claghen, (5 Dec. 1928)
No. 7 in F minor, Edinburgh, (11 March 1930)
No. 8 in C Sharp minor (8 May 1930)
No. 9, De Bitonale, (8 Sep. 1930)
No. 10a in D major, Walzersymphonie, (17 Sep. 1930)
No. 10b, Spielt auf!, (undated)
No. 11 in G minor, Wirbelsymphony, (4 Oct. 1930)
No. 12 in C major, In Babylone, (9 Oct. 1930)
No. 13 in A minor, Alle eendjes zwemmen in het water, (29 Nov. 1930)
No. 14 in D major, Winterthur, (30 Dec. 1930)
No. 15 in F Sharp minor (27 Feb. 1931)
No. 16, Tempest, (21 Apr. 1931)
No. 17, Wilhelm Meister, (5 May 1931)
No. 18 in A major (28 May 1931)
No. 19, über B.A.C.H., (1 Sep. 1931)
No. 20 in C minor, Prooemion. Mit Schlußchor über Goethe's Prooemion [Im Namen Dessen der sich selbst erschuf] (19 Sep. 1931)
No. 21 in A minor (26 Sep. 1931)
No. 22 in F Sharp major (22 Oct. 1931)
No. 23 in C minor (18 Jan. 1932)
No. 24 in E major (18 April 1932)

Source: Gaudeamus. The life of Julius Röntgen (1855-1932). Composer and musician. Dr Jurjen Vis, Waanders Uitgevers Zwolle, 2007, Appendix 4, p.449

If we bear in mind that Röntgen didn't feel well in Edinburgh (1930), went to hospital on 3 August 1932 and died on 13 Sep. 1932 it is very remarkable that he composed 19 symphonies in the last two years of his life. How did he do that? We know that his music is powerful and refreshing up to the end of his life. Just listen as an example to his last two piano concertos 6&7 of 1929.

[Alan Howe]

I've always thought that Röntgen was remarkably productive - and nothing of his is anything less than fresh, vigorous and enormously stimulating to listen to. Maybe he wasn't the most innovative of composers, but he is unfailingly interesting and often much more than that. Thanks very much for the listing, Peter!

[petershott@btinternet.com]

Hear, hear!!

And if every composer was "innovative" then, crikey, our ears wouldn't be able to cope. So thank heavens for the Rontgens of the world.

Besides, how often, when listening to a Rontgen composition, does a discerning listener think to themselves 'Hrm, not very innovative'. (Not having a jibe at you, Alan! I'm just thinking 'innovative' isn't quite the right word here. 'Innovative' by what standard? Brahms, for example: in my world he is one of the absolute greats in music, but was he 'innovative'? Not surely in the sense we might call Beethoven 'innovative'. But maybe I'm just arguing over a word. I prefer Peter's "powerful and refreshing" - that hits the nail on the head with Rontgen.)

[Dundonnell]

I wouldn't claim to be anything other than mildly enthusiastic about Rontgen's music but I do my duty by buying all the CPO releases. The music is certainly attractive and pleasant although I would not go as far as to say memorable.

However, one question-

The list includes the Symphony No. 4 "Sinfonietta humoristica"(24 Nov., 1922). I presume that this is the same "Symphonietta humoristica" of 1922 released by CPO (777 308-2) in a recording made in 2007. In his programme notes for that release the same Jurgen Vis says that the Symphonietta cannot be called a symphony and assigns no number to it. This leaves me slightly confused

If it is indeed Symphony No.4 then by my reckoning CPO have now recorded six Rontgen symphonies-Nos. 3, 4, 8, 10, 15 and 18. Only another eighteen to go then   (Nos. 5, 6 and 19 are scheduled for release soon )

[Alan Howe]

'Innovative' by what standard?

By the standard of other symphonists of the same period...

[Balapoel]

Thanks for this - my list has gone through some alterations over the years. Each symphony has been a pleasure; Rontgen is definitely on my must-buy list.

Some additions:

Symphony No. 6 is in c minor
Symphony No. 19 is also in c minor


Do you have more information about the 'spielt auf' symphony, No. 10b? This wasn't on my list.

[eschiss1]

The last work of his I know of (possibly his last major work), his G major piano quintet, bears out what you say above, by the way. Have listened to it several times. (Bears out its subtitle, too!)

No.8 in C-sharp is the one with the vocalise, yes? (I think vocalise- I don't recall there being a text to sing.)

Re Brahms being innovative: yes, he was. Schoenberg agrees with me and for good reason. (If you haven't read "Brahms the Progressive", read that first...)

[Peter1953]

Symphony No. 8 has also a name, Gjendines Koelok. Gjendine (1871-1972, in 1897 married to Halvor Slaalien) was a Norwegian woman who composed songs. Röntgen met her for the first time in August 1891. He was impressed by her natural beauty and the songs she had composed. Besides, she had developed a way to lure cows and that amused Röntgen a lot. She had written a song about this.
His 8th Symphony is called Gjendines Koelok, which means 'Gjendine's lure of cows'. In the last part of the symphony a soprano sings the song, in fact, she allures a cow. 

BTW, in August 1930 Röntgen had written to his very good friend Tovey about his new symphonies: Es sind alle einsätzige Stücke, jedes dauert ungefähr 15-20 Minuten (these are all one movement works, each lasting circa 15-20 minutes).

Source: Gaudeamus, Dr Jurjen Vis, p.198-199, 412.

[FBerwald]

Many sources list Röntgen to have composed over 600 works. Can we be sure he wrote only 25 Symphonies? Any lost? Destroyed? ...

[eschiss1]

Donemus' site once had a PDF compiled in part from a worklist that was published in 1934 and at least 2 other sources. The 1934 worklist contains a number of works now lost, if I understand.

While they have taken down the PDF from their site, I have a copy and will see what it says about lost symphonies...

25 are listed on pages 15 and 16 of the Donemus PDF,

I think, if I understand this list correctly, that no. "23" "In Namen der sich selbst erschuf" from 1931 might be lost. Does anyone know of it? Likewise a symphony no.14 "Edinburgh" in C minor and a symphony no.15 in C both from 1930, and a few early symphonies (symphony no.1 in G 1873-4, symphony no.2 in C minor 1872, symphony no.3 in F minor 1874, symphony no.6 in B-flat 1929. The c minor symphony that's recorded is given number 4 (1910) in this listing!).

In all, if "B" and no other source to the right of a work means lost (well, hopefully maybe just missing)- I don't know that it does - then that's 7 lost symphonies and only 18 surviving Röntgen symphonies.

Most of the listed symphonies are from 1926-1932 (indeed, most from 1930-1931! (no.4 is usually recorded as no.3, suggesting that there are two previous (surviving... ) ones and that I am mistaken.)

[eschiss1]

Here is the symphony list in full- I assume that this sort of thing is fair use if I don't quote too much information from it, or something.
1871-72. Symphony 1 (maybe lost?)
1872. Symphony 2 (maybe lost?)
1874. Symphony 3 (maybe lost?)
1910. Symphony 4 (3) in C minor.
1926-30. Symphony 5 in A minor.
1929. Symphony 6 (maybe lost)
1930: Symphony 7 "Doctor"
" : Symphony in C-sharp minor with soprano solo
" : Symphony 9 in D
" : Symphony no.10 in G minor Wirbelsymphonie (manuscript at IMSLP)
" : Bitonal Symphony no.11
" : Babylon Symphony in C, no.12
" : Winterthur Symphony in D, no.13
" : Edinburgh symphony (lost?) , no.14
" : Symphony in C (lost?), no.15
" : Walzer-Symphony "Spielt-Auf", no.16 in D
1931 : Symphony in F# minor, no.17
" : Tempest-Symphony after Shakespeare, no.18
" : A major symphony, no.19
" : A minor symphony, no.20
" : C minor symphony on B-A-C-H, no.21
" : F# major symphony, no.22
" : C minor symphony "Im Namen der sich selbst erschuf" (lost?)
1932 : C minor symphony, no.24
" : E major symphony, no.25
This list does not seem to include the Symphonietta, which is on page 15 under other orchestral works, from 1922.

[John H White]

According to Donald Tovey, who, at that time, was professor of Music at Edinburgh University, the Edinburgh Symphony was definitely in F minor and most of the quotes he gives from it in his book "Essays in Musical Analysis" have 4 flats in their key signature. The composer presented the score to the University at a lunch in his honour after he had received an honorary degree. It would seem that the best place to look for that score would be in the library  of Edinburgh University.

[albion]

According to Donald Tovey, who, at that time, was professor of Music at Edinburgh University, the Edinburgh Symphony was definitely in F minor and most of the quotes he gives from it in his book "Essays in Musical Analysis" have 4 flats in their key signature. The composer presented the score to the University at a lunch in his honour after he had received an honorary degree. It would seem that the best place to look for that score would be in the library  of Edinburgh University.

This may be of interest - http://www.ed.ac.uk/news/all-news/symphony-160310

[Mark Thomas]

Maybe someone should tell cpo?

[eschiss1]

I -like- this news. Thanks.