Jan van Gilse's 3rd Symphony from cpo

[Peter1953]

That wouldn't be so civilized, would it Greg?

[Alan Howe]

Summa summarum, it's for me the best Dutch symphony

Oh dear - real disagreement here. Van Gilse's 3rd is a nice piece, certainly, but hardly qualifies for the accolade 'best Dutch symphony'. For that, I think it is necessary to turn to the generation that emerged from under the shadow of the European Romantic greats - to a composer such as Badings. For what it's worth, I'd look to something like his 2nd or 3rd Symphony...

[Mark Thomas]

It seems to me that van Gilse's Third must have something to divide opinion so.

[Alan Howe]

It seems to me that van Gilse's Third must have something to divide opinion so.

What's dividing opinion is the quest for the Great Dutch Symphony...

[Christo]

It seems to me that van Gilse's Third must have something to divide opinion so.

What's dividing opinion is the quest for the Great Dutch Symphony...

I don't think there is one. But in terms of `national style', Zweers 3 and Dopper 7 would qualify. In terms of quality I would nominate Vermeulen 2, Pijper 2, Orthel 2, Fodor 3 perhaps. And special prizes for the (large) cycles by Badings and Röntgen.

[Greg K]

It seems to me that van Gilse's Third must have something to divide opinion so.

Really, it's Peter against the world here, - with finger in the dyke (heroically) holding off an
on-rushing sea .

True, Josh's critique is a little different (i.e. van Gilse's 3rd as dangerously progressive vs. the anachronistic relic that others hear).

Still, I would defend the strength of Peter's convictions (little as I share them) as opposed to Mark's seeming reduction of the music to occasional therapeutic wallow device.

I fear that's manipulative and condescending, and feel one should acknowledge its intentions, integrity, and relevance (or mere retrospective historical interest), - and hear it with that mindset,
or (alternatively) set it aside. 

OT however.

[Alan Howe]

... as opposed to Mark's seeming reduction of the music to occasional therapeutic wallow device. I fear that's manipulative and condescending...

It's just an opinion. Which I happen to share. Let's not descend into adjectives such as "manipulative" and "condescending" when we happen to disagree with someone else's opinion. So, if there's to be any further debate on this topic, let it be conducted in a properly respectful manner, avoiding ad hominem remarks...

[Mark Thomas]

Mark's seeming reduction of the music to occasional therapeutic wallow device ... I fear that's manipulative and condescending

Well, I feel well and truly put in my place. I shall crawl away into a corner and take refuge in a therapeutic wallow device...

[Alan Howe]

The work is indeed an enjoyable listen. I think my verdict on it, though, would be that its ambition outweighs its achievement.

[allison]

Gosh, I too heard lots of beautiful sounds strung together in an orderly and highly enjoyable way, guess I forgot to listen for the parts I should want to criticize. Must be the way I listen to most anything.

[jerfilm]

Hey Mark, I'd be interested in knowing what your favorite therapeutic wallow device might be???   Or is that a topic for a new thread?? 

Jerry

[Dundonnell]

van Gilse- "the scary modernist"

Willem Pijper must be spinning in his grave

[Mark Thomas]

Hey Mark, I'd be interested in knowing what your favorite therapeutic wallow device might be???   Or is that a topic for a new thread?? 

The world is not yet ready....

[Alan Howe]

...guess I forgot to listen for the parts I should want to criticize.

Well, the parts are beautiful, but somewhat derivative. The whole is thoroughly enjoyable, but doesn't  have the means to be what it aspires to be. It's a division 2 piece, but a worthwhile discovery.