Symphonies in Disguise?

[eschiss1]

Admittedly, it's not a symphony in disguise, since it's actually called a "symphony", but I just thought I'd ask. (Relates more to something later in the thread, I suppose.)

[JimL]

I've always thought of two John Adams works as symphonies in all but name: Harmonielehre and Naive and Sentimental Music.

[Elroel]

There's another Sinfonietta that belongs here I think: Max Reger's Sinfonietta.
Once a critic mentioned that there is so much material, another composer could easely fill 3 or 4 symphonies with it.

[Alan Howe]

Glad to see someone agreeing with me about Reger's Sinfonietta!

[Christopher]

Is Liszt's Berg-Symphonie ("Ce qu'on entend sur la montagne") a tone poem or symphony?  It certainly goes on a bit....!

[JimL]

That's a symphonic poem.  Isn't it No. 1?

[Jonathan]

It is indeed JimL!

[Gareth Vaughan]

Just to be cheeky, it really depends on how one defines "symphony". The meaning of the word has changed over the years. And one might (again cheekily) argue that if, as a composer, I choose to call the piece of music I've written a "symphony" then that's what it is. That wouldn't, of course, work for a more clearly defined form - if, for example, I wrote a piece which I called "minuet" when it was manifestly a "waltz", that would be either foolish or bloody-minded!

[Christo]

Sometimes, the disguise may be really effective. John Cage's three-movement 4′33″ might also be a symphony in hiding. Who can tell? 

[Gareth Vaughan]

No. To my ears it's a concerto for bass sarrusaphone!

[Jimfin]

I don't wish to be pedantic, but 4'33 is officially a piano piece. The 'pianist' is supposed to walk onto the platform, open the piano's lid and sit there, all part of the 'performance'.

[Alan Howe]

A symphony for piano solo, then? 

[Gareth Vaughan]

With bass sarrusaphone ad lib.

[chill319]

Alken, Sorabji, Cage. Not sure I'd want to put them in a symphony together.

[doctorpresume]

I don't wish to be pedantic, but 4'33 is officially a piano piece. The 'pianist' is supposed to walk onto the platform, open the piano's lid and sit there, all part of the 'performance'.

Sorry to be doubly pedantic, but it isn't!

The score describes David Tudor's first performance of the piece as a piano piece, but Cage simply doesn't specify a particular instrument al all, it just states that the piece can be performed by any instrumentalist or or number of instrumentalists, and may be of any duration. Additionally, the note on the score also says that Tudor closed the lid to indicate the start of each movement, and only opened the lid again to indicate the movement had ended.