Romantic PCs from Brilliant Classics

[JimL]

One of my favorite LPs in my lost (and much lamented) collection was the Raymond Lewenthal recording of the Henselt PC (coupled with his pastiche version of the Liszt Totentanz.)  It had a little supplemental bonus record in a pocket on the front which contained a lecture on both works.  Apparently Henselt spent his time teaching in Russia more productively than just swatting flies.  His pupil Nikolai Zverev was teacher to both Rachmaninoff and Scriabin, and, as Lewenthal pointed out, a Henseltian sonority pervades the piano writing of both composers.

[Steve B]

Wow... what a trouvaille... the Bronsart is a brilliant piece of music! How is it possible that Bronsart has been so neglected? I wonder what else he composed and if anything else is available on CD.

I have never heard anything else by Bronsart, but I have heard a Waltz Caprice written by his wife that was sufficiently awful to have warranted divorce.

Thal

You have a way with words, thalberg, that makes me laugh!

And thanks, Peter, my heart IS full of joy.

Marks upto now: Cramer 5/10
Czerny: possibly a grower. 6/10
Ries: q. good pompous opening tutti and Beethoven quotation in first movement. 6/10
Clementi: note spinning. The orchestra, even i have to admit, a selfconfessed apologist for Vox orchestras, is execrable(no wonder Brana didnt want the rights to THIS Blumenthal performance, not that SHE does anythng wrong!).1/10.
Field: beautiful;different from all the Cramers and Hummels and Clementis, even his passagework "divine", as Liszt said. Pomposo tuttis, beautiful woodwind writing, and odd, effective modulations. Totally unique. 9/10
Hummel:Piano Concertino; run of mill.1/10
Moscheles:not ideal rep. for super-Ponti; too early for his WONDERFUL histrionics. Some nice tunes. 5 or 6.
Hiller: another winner. Is this on hyperion too?. When written? VERY adventurous for its(putative) time; mad, good themes(fast and slow); the speed Ponti plays is a medical marvel: VERY exciting.8/10
Litolff: um...are they Dutch national tunes?; q.good if in right mood for bombast, bluster and rodomontade: otherwise, rather awful and so bad is  just bad; but slow movt a grower, i think. 2/10 or 6/10, depending on mood.
Kalkbrenner:average; but maybe a grower in parts. But when I compare these composers to Field, they all just sound the same(though i admit Hummel can occasionally write  good tune); but the passagework hasnt the same mellifluous beauty and extravagance of Field. 3/10
Hummel: Les Adieux. Uninspiring, but q. like the grandioso opening tutti again. 2/10

NB. these marks are for the pieces themselves, not the performance; and am aware am being slightly reductive, and some may be growers! :)And... of course.. we all have our favourites and opinions... which i respect, seriously.

So the Ponti/Trochopoulos v. Marsheev and Hamelin "wars" continue... all in the most kind-spirited way, of course ! Agreeing to differ.

Steve.

[thalbergmad]

I find myself in general agreement with your marks, but I would have given the Czerny an 8/10 and both the Hummel -2/10. I must have listened to the Litolff in a particularly good mood & perhaps I was carried away with the superb playing as opposed to the music itself.

Hummel is about as warm as my garage is at the moment.

Thal

[Peter1953]

My four favourites are (1) Henselt 10/10 (how I adore this utterly stunning masterpiece; the ideal combination seems to me Ponti's playing and Hamelin's accompanying orchestra), (2) Moscheles 9/10 (ever such a moving melody), (3) Bronsart 9/10 (for me the find of the set) and (4) Rubinstein 8/10 (of course... but I still prefer Banowetz).
O yes, the tune of Chopin 11/10. He stands above all (I know, it's very personal).
So far the four most disappointing concertos for me are (1) Roussel 0/10 (just terrible), (2) Stavenhagen 2/10 (thanks to the adagio, otherwise 1/10, however, I'll give it another try in the far future), (3) Mayr 3/10 (totally uninspired) and (4) Mosonyi 3/10 (what a simplicity).

Yes Steve, Litolff used two for me recognizable Dutch tunes, but what a noisy, bombastic passages so now and then. Almost like his mirror image, Liszt. But I love Liszt and I don't love Litolff.

Steve and Thal, are you serious about these Hummel concertos? Steve, you say that Hummel occasionally writes good tunes, so what do you think of his opp. 85 & 89?
But I realize once more: everyone to his own taste.

[Steve B]

Peter, good post!I actually quite LIKE the Stavehagen myself, again in a slightly bombastic way; it finishes very oddly too. Which bits u like best in the Bronsart?Which do you find the moving melody in the Moscheles? These ARE quirky recordings, but excelllent stuff and its heartening to see some favourable views on this forum.I shall review(and mark!) the next batch of the set forthwith.
Steve

[Peter1953]

What do you think of the Tchaikovsky disc (CD13)? Do you recognize PC No. 3, op. 75/79?

Pleasant surprises are Hiller's Konzertstück and Volkmann's Konzertstück. Both brilliant showpieces, with elegant, well-developed melodies. I think Hiller's op. 113 is the best piece he wrote for piano and orchestra, although his 2nd PC has its pleasing moments. And Volkmann's op. 42 is truly gorgeous. Hardly to believe it's from the same composer as the one who wrote such a nervous Cello Concerto. And then the Czerny. What a cheerful, sparkling piece, after some 8 minutes with a lovely dialogue between piano and violin!

Is there anybody who likes the Lalo? Or the Glazunov? If so, what do you think makes these works worth repeated listenings?

Now the Moscheles. During my years as a student I heard this concerto for the first time. It was a radio broadcast, and I made a tape recording. The only information I had that it was Moscheles PC in G minor, op. 58, performed by Ponti with the Philharmonia Hungarica. That's all. No idea it was his 3rd. It was "love at first hearing". The opening theme is very moving, in fact, the whole first movement is full of depth while shows at the same time brilliant piano writing. The lovely adagio leads directly into the thrilling 3rd movement, again full of magical piano writing, but also with emotional depth. There is hardly a role for the orchestra, but for me this Moscheles concerto has always been a favourite because of its touching melodies. Can you understand how happy I was when Hyperion started to release six other concerto's? But non of these other PC's offers a similar emotional depth, as I experience it.

There is a big difference between the Ponti and the Shelley. Of course the Hyperion disc (2002) offers absolutely superior technical quality, up to the very high standards of today. But it sounds all rather flat, if you compare it with the Ponti (although recorded in 1968). I prefer Ponti's piano playing far above Shelley's.
Another remarkable difference are the cuts taken in the first recording, something Jim already pointed out. Ponti / Shelley: 1st movement 11'55 / 15'06, 2nd 4'38 / 5'11 and 3rd 8'51 / 9'09. It makes the Ponti more compact, but nevertheless, I prefer the shorter concerto.

Please don't start a discussion... but I wonder how non-German speaking members pronounce Moscheles... 

[thalbergmad]

I promise to not start a discussion, but i was having lunch with a German Pianist a few months ago who assured me that it was pronounced Mosh - el - ez. As for his concerti, I have always had a preference for 4th and 7th myself.

Further to my previous comments about Brilliant Classics and their packaging skills, they are going to replace the entire set as opposed to just disk 15 which i was missing. Therefore, if anyone wants the whole series minus this one disk, they are more than welcome to mine as "Brilliant" have not asked for the original delivery back.

Thal

[chill319]

Peter1953, for the simple reason that I was taking French when, as an American high school student I learned about Moscheles, for years I pronounced his name "Maw-SHELL." When I moved to Wisconsin from New York I was disheartened to hear public radio here pronounce Vaughan Williams's name as "Ralf" rather than as "Rafe."

[Ilja]

[snipped]Litolff: um...are they Dutch national tunes?; q.good if in right mood for bombast, bluster and rodomontade: otherwise, rather awful and so bad is  just bad; but slow movt a grower, i think. 2/10 or 6/10, depending on mood

It's the old Dutch national anthem ('Wien Neêrlands bloed door d'ad'ren vloeit'), written by the German (sic) Johan Wilms and in function between 1815 and 1932, when it was replaced by the significantly more awful Wilhelmus (which goes on about German blood and Spanish Kings and is probably only beaten in terms of sheer boredom by 'God Save the King')

[FBerwald]

Wow we are giving marks???
(and just into the new year).... well here goes..........

I would give ...
1. Scharwenka No. 4 100/10 :-) (simply mind blowing every time I hear it!!!!)
2. Paderewski 8/10
3. Medtner 9/10
4. Bortkiewicz 7/10
5. Stojowsky 8/10
6. Hahn 9/10
7. Saint-Saëns 9/10
8. Rubinstein 9/10 (Altough like Peter I prefer the Banowitcz!)
9. Ernst Mielck 8/10
10. Berwald 7/10.

The biggest disappointments have been
1. Nápravník & Blumenfeld 2/10 (very derivative.)
2. Sterndale Bennett 3/10
3. Vol. 47 and 48 (I felt was a Hyperion failure.... Sorry I know some of you love your Draeseke)


PS: Really thalbergmad  you are just giving the collection away??

[thalbergmad]

Well, I was only giving marks on the "brilliant" series. I would probably be entering into dangerous ground if I were to start on the "Hyperion" and others.

Never heard of Ernst Mielck before, so investigation required.

I assume you missed the minus sign off the Hahn and your finger must have slipped with the Sterndale Bennett .

Yes, I have already given my incomplete set away. I was in a good mood after watching the darts.

Thal

[Alan Howe]

While we're off the subject, what do forum members think of Scharwenka PCs 2 & 3 on Hyperion? They're easy to neglect in favour of Nos.1 & 4, but I'm just listening to No.2 - and wow, what a piece! 40 minutes of Romantic-era stuff, full of gorgeous tunes and orchestration. And meat! I feel that this is also a serious statement, of symphonic breadth. 10/10!

[JimL]

I actually have the original Collins release, which I must have obtained just before the label went belly-up.  I have always loved the Scharwenka PC 2, and was so grateful that Ponti recorded the whole thing on that old Vox Candide LP so I could decide for myself whether Raymond Lewenthal's assessment of the entire concerto was correct (remember, his Columbia LP of the Rubinstein PC 4 was coupled with the severed finale of Scharwenka 2).  He didn't think there were any "really big tunes" in any of the Scharwenka concertos except for that one movement.  I beg to differ.  

P.S. Apparently Hyperion obtained the master of these performances, because I believe it's simply a re-release of the Collins CD with Tanyel and Strugala.

[Mark Thomas]

All four of his Piano Concertos (and his Symphony come to that) are seriously impressive works IMHO. It's a great shame that for some reason Xaver Scharwenka seems to have been, and continues to be, sneered at by the musical establishment. I suspect that the unashamedly populist First Piano Concerto and the fact that he made a lot of money from his Polish Dances, his concert tours and owning his Conservatory are to blame.

[Ilja]

While we're off the subject, what do forum members think of Scharwenka PCs 2 & 3 on Hyperion? They're easy to neglect in favour of Nos.1 & 4, but I'm just listening to No.2 - and wow, what a piece! 40 minutes of Romantic-era stuff, full of gorgeous tunes and orchestration. And meat! I feel that this is also a serious statement, of symphonic breadth. 10/10!

The second is my favourite of the Scharwenka concertos by some distance. Among its many, many highlights, my favourite is the grand way the piano is introduced into the first movement.

Also, I can't believe someone thinks the Napravnik concerto is derivative - particularly if you realise it was written in 1877.