Romantic PCs from Brilliant Classics

[Ilja]

All four of his Piano Concertos (and his Symphony come to that) are seriously impressive works IMHO. It's a great shame that for some reason Xaver Scharwenka seems to have been, and continues to be, sneered at by the musical establishment. I suspect that the unashamedly populist First Piano Concerto and the fact that he made a lot of money from his Polish Dances, his concert tours and owning his Conservatory are to blame.

Yes, it does seem as though being a good marketeer is certain to earn you disdain from the critics, doesn't it? Take Scharwenka, Raff or even Rachmaninov.

[JimL]

Also, I can't believe someone thinks the Napravnik concerto is derivative - particularly if you realise it was written in 1877.

The Napravnik is a truly marvellous piece, IMHO, and damn near repertory quality.  As you pointed out, Ilja, it seems to be derivative of later works.

[Jamie]

The second is my favourite of the Scharwenka concertos by some distance. Among its many, many highlights, my favourite is the grand way the piano is introduced into the first movement.

The 4 Scharwenka concertos are my very favorite PC's. Each one is magnificent in its own way. That thunderous piano entrance in the first movement of #2 that Ilja refers to is IMO the most impressive of any PC I know. Someone once described this PC as "Chopin on steroids". I'm partial to minor keys and all 4 are in this mode, including my favorite key, c# minor (#3). I'll always regret that I wasn't able to attend a performance of #4 with Stephen Hough and the Indianapolis Symphony in 3/96 (I was living there at the time and had to move to PA to start a new job 2 weeks before the concert).

[JimL]

Well, I did get to see him play it in 1997 with Foster conducting the L.A. Phil.

[FBerwald]

Never heard of Ernst Mielck before, so investigation required.

I assume you missed the minus sign off the Hahn and your finger must have slipped with the Sterndale Bennett .

Yes, I have already given my incomplete set away. I was in a good mood after watching the darts.

Thal

No Dear Thalberg my fingers did NOT slip  with the Sterndale Bennett(I'm sorry, I just couldn't warm up to the concerto....orfor that matter any of  the other 4)... As far as Hahn is concerned, that was the 1st vol of RPC I came across and I still love it. 

Ernst Mielck (1877-1899) Finland seems to have died quite young barely (25) The concertpiece for Piano and orchestra is coupled with his symphony F minor - a brooding n beautiful work (Sterling)....some have speculated as to what might have happened to Sibelius if the serious competition Mielck represented had been allowed to mature and he is also called the the "Finnish Schubert" and referred to as "Max Bruch's favorite pupil".

[thalbergmad]

Thanks FBerwald, I will see if I can find a recording. Sounds interesting.

Thal

[Syrelius]

Thanks FBerwald, I will see if I can find a recording. Sounds interesting.

Thal

The symphony is also available on a CD from Ondine, together with a piece for violin and orchestra, if I recall correctly.

[Steve B]

I agree, the Napravnik is the OPPOSITE of derivative: one of the movements(forget which, at the moment) foreshadows Prokofiev in its toccata-like spikiness and relentlessness; reminds too of Kabalevsky's beautiful "Youth"(3RD) Concerto. Anyone remember the LP of the Kabalevsky,c/w Rubinstein 3rd, with , I think, Robert Preston on short-lived Ember Classics series?(they also did a mad Rubi PC 1,played by Michael Fardink-there's two intermittent but forgotten champions of the unsungs!:)

Regarding, favourite Scharwenka PC, i shall revisit No4.but I find no. 3 to be PERFECT in melody and structure; every melody(of the whole piece!),{ except(possibly), in movt 1, a subsidiary but beautiful second theme, (not the actual second subject!never heard again)} is based on the opening Brahms PC-like flourish. The first movt 2nd subject (proper) is ineffably halting and therefore moving; and is recalled at the end of the slow movt; and there is that sad Polish dance in the finale, which returns, with full circularity to the opening Brahmsian(or does it predate Brahms:)!?) flourish. Perhaps, Jim, u can elucidate further on the cyclic nature of the themes:)!

And yes, No.2 is GREAT fun; those tuttis are the maddest of ANY late classical/Romantic first movt tuttis: pompous but out of control(and thats not just the Hamburg Symphony strings:)!); but to me, No3. is simply perfect, a masterpiece, sheer economy, precision and emotional literacy; the equal of ANY famous, sung piano concerto. Steve

[Peter1953]

Thank you, FBerwald. What I've selected from the discussion since we're off the subject, is Ernst Mielck. Never heard of him before, but after listening to the audio samples at jpc.de I wonder whether Mielck was the Finnish Stolpe? A genius, who died before his maturity.
What to do? The Sterling couples the symphony and the Konzertstück for piano and orchestra, op. 9 (what a lovely slow movement, so to hear), and the Ondine couples the symphony and the Konzertstück for violin and orchestra, op. 8. Just listen to the audio extracts, and you will probably like to have both Konzertstücke. What's the alternative?

Once again, listen to the first seconds of the Tchaikovsky disc (CD13) and tell me what you hear and what Brilliant says you can hear. 

[Steve B]

Thanks, peter; this is OUTRAGEOUS. I hear a seldom played, minor( Tchaikovsky Piano Concerto, beginning with a littleknown piano solo:).Seriously, though; this isnt good enough. Thats 2 copies(peter 1953's and mine) with the wrong concerto for the first 3 tracks of cd 13; plus someone said they got 2 of the same disc(?thalberg); plus my Mozart(who? set had a gouge in one disc of the original set and the replacement set; plus I have seen at least one other complaint re Brilliant on the net. Ok, they are cheap. But it is just rubbish. Luckily, i have the correct(ie as named on the sleeve) recording of the first 3 tracks on the original Ponti LP and on a VoxBox.

Massive prizes for what piece is on cd 13 tracks 1 to 3 :)If you don't get it, perhaps you have gone TOO far(if that were possible) down the unknown footpath:))!)

[JimL]

Don't keep those of us in suspense who aren't going to get the set.  How did Brilliant screw up?  What is the concerto and what is it supposed to be?  I think this is kind of like when I had an old Nonesuch LP of Handel's Water Music, but the liner notes on the back were for Hummel's Mandolin Concerto!

[JimL]

I agree, the Napravnik is the OPPOSITE of derivative: one of the movements(forget which, at the moment) foreshadows Prokofiev in its toccata-like spikiness and relentlessness; reminds too of Kabalevsky's beautiful "Youth"(3RD) Concerto. Anyone remember the LP of the Kabalevsky,c/w Rubinstein 3rd, with , I think, Robert Preston on short-lived Ember Classics series?(they also did a mad Rubi PC 1,played by Michael Fardink-there's two intermittent but forgotten champions of the unsungs!:)

Regarding, favourite Scharwenka PC, i shall revisit No4.but I find no. 3 to be PERFECT in melody and structure; every melody(of the whole piece!),{ except(possibly), in movt 1, a subsidiary but beautiful second theme, (not the actual second subject!never heard again)} is based on the opening Brahms PC-like flourish. The first movt 2nd subject (proper) is ineffably halting and therefore moving; and is recalled at the end of the slow movt; and there is that sad Polish dance in the finale, which returns, with full circularity to the opening Brahmsian(or does it predate Brahms:)!?) flourish. Perhaps, Jim, u can elucidate further on the cyclic nature of the themes:)!

And yes, No.2 is GREAT fun; those tuttis are the maddest of ANY late classical/Romantic first movt tuttis: pompous but out of control(and thats not just the Hamburg Symphony strings:)!); but to me, No3. is simply perfect, a masterpiece, sheer economy, precision and emotional literacy; the equal of ANY famous, sung piano concerto. Steve

I remember those LPs, Steve.  I used to have both of them.  I don't know what the label was called over there, but it was on the Orion label here.  The finale of Rubi 3 had massive cuts taken out (which, in some respects, did the movement a favor).  The Rubi 1 was mislabeled as being in E Major instead of E Minor.  I still can't figure out how that mistake was made by the supposedly musically literate people who produced the album and wrote the liner notes. 

Scharwenka PC 3 is a great work, too.  I don't know what second subject in the first movement you're referring to when you say it only appears once.  The movement is essentially monothematic, Steve.  The second subject is simply a major key, cantabile version of the first theme.  It appears twice.  The closing material (the theme with the triangle) also appears twice.  That opening theme appears in numerous transformations throughout the work.  The first theme of the finale is a major key transformation of it, if I recall correctly.  I'll have to give the whole thing another listen to some time.

As for the Napravnik, it's the first movement that has that motoric, Prokofiev-like quality.  I can't recall anything quite like it in all of the Russian music I know that preceded it.

[Alan Howe]

My copy of the box also has Tchaik PC1 instead of PC3 at the start of CD13!! A massive screw-up appears to be on the cards here...

[FBerwald]

Dear Peter1953,

It seems a bit confusing... I have the Ernst Mielck- Sterling which has the concertpiece for piano and orchestra. The symphony is played quite nicely. I have no idea about the Ondine version, but the reviews are all positive. From the soundclip the violin concertpiece sounds sublime and beautiful. The piano concertpiece has a more folksy feel to it. Its your choice ultimately....
  ........while we are on the subject of unknown romantics have you (or anyone) heard of the Swedish composer Ruben Liljefors. I have a recording of his Piano concerto in F minor and a Symphony in E flat major. The piano concerto is like the Grieg... only a very laid-back Grieg .......a Grieg possibly on a quiet afternoon after a hearty Lunch by the lake listening to Debussy's Prélude à l'après-midi d'un faune!!!! (Sorry ...got a bit carried away..but thats exactly how this music sounds!!!)

[FBerwald]

I agree, the Napravnik is the OPPOSITE of derivative: one of the movements(forget which, at the moment) foreshadows Prokofiev in its toccata-like spikiness and relentlessness; reminds too of Kabalevsky's beautiful "Youth"(3RD) Concerto. Anyone remember the LP of the Kabalevsky,c/w Rubinstein 3rd

I absolutely love the Kabalevsky Piano concerto no 3 (youth)...Its Funny but has anyone noticed that the main theme of the second movement is EXACTLY THE SAME as second section of Dvoraks famous Humoreske Op. 101 No.7. It was my Piano teacher, the Late Cyrus Panthaky who pointed it out to me. Nevertheless its one of the great fun concertos I never get tired of listening to!