How many copies of unsung CDs actually get sold?

[tcutler]

Last year I read an article on classical CD sales. Due to various factors such as digital downloads, piracy, disinterest, etc., a CD could easily end up on Billboard's Classical Top 10 list having sold less than 100 copies in a week. So, out of curiosity, how many copies of the average unsung CD (actual CDs, not digital downloads) get sold within the first few years of release? I know "average" is a difficult thing to measure, because some recordings will be more popular than others. Thus, for instance, take Hyperion's recording of the Brull Piano Concertos--how many copies do you think it sold? Or does anyone know the actual number? Thanks!

[Dundonnell]

One person who could reply with an authoritative answer would be Martin Anderson of Toccata (a member of this forum). Whether such (sensitive ) information would be released however is another matter

[Mark Thomas]

Maybe my information is out of date now but I understand that a small label without the marketing power of Naxos, say, would do well to sell 2,000 copies of a CD in the first two or three years and 1,000 to 1,500 would be average. I imagine that Hyperion, Chandos and cpo would sell more - and would probably need to.

[markniew]

Yes, I believe that in case of unsung music selling of 500 copies during a year is quite good result. And in most cases shops are ordering very carefully lesser-well known music in rather small numbers.
So, for example here in Poland/Warsaw it is rather difficult to find news from Acte Prealable or DUX with unsung music. That means that, much to great surprise of the shops' owners, there are listeners intersted in such music.

[mbhaub]

Maybe my information is out of date now but I understand that a small label without the marketing power of Naxos, say, would do well to sell 2,000 copies of a CD in the first two or three years and 1,000 to 1,500 would be average.

If I think about this too much it makes me very, very sad and also little upset and angry. In a world with billions of people, to think that only 3000-4000 people would buy some cds is disturbing.  I guess in a way it's a miracle that some things get recorded at all. To think that my love of something like the Schmidt 4th is shared by an extremely minute fraction of the population makes me feel so isolated.

[JimL]

Do what I do.  Join FB and find some of the unsung stuff that's uploaded on YouTube.  Then share it.  I get a fair number of "likes" from my friends, if they catch it before it sinks down too far.

[fr8nks]

Less than 5% of music lovers listen to classical music. And many of the 5% don't venture beyond Beethoven or Brahms. I remember when Gorecki's 3rd Symphony topped the music charts. Does anyone remember how many copies that sold?

How many people will buy the new Dutton release of the Catoire/Sherwood Piano Concertos? How many people have even heard about it that aren't members of UC? We are in the minority and our numbers are declining.

[Jimfin]

On a positive note, the internet means that the ability of these small labels to get known about far and wide is increasing. Living in Japan, I can't imagine how hard it would be for me to find out about these releases  without, let alone go and order them. And while pop fans seem to pirate all their music these days, I think classical listeners prize rare releases enough to spend a lot of money on them (I know I and a lot of people on here do), so it is probably far less in decline than pop.

[doctorpresume]

I once heard from someone in the know that the big HMV on Oxford St in London (the one between Oxford Circus and Tottenham Court Road, rather than the one near Bond St that isn't there any more!) deemed things sufficiently popular to stock them physically in the classical department if they sold even two copies a year!

[Mark Thomas]

I'm with Jimfin on this and not really despondent about the situation because I really do believe that the internet is a very powerful positive force, at least when it comes to classical music recordings. Not only do sites like this "spread the word", but music labels can sell their product, both physical CDs and downloadable tracks, much more easily over the internet then they can by engaging wholesalers to sell in penny numbers to a dwindling band of shops.

One thing we will have to face up to, though, is that the days of the CD itself are numbered. The economics of selling recordings as downloadable tracks are so much more attractive to recording labels than manufacturing CDs and printing booklets that I'm sure that's the way of the future. Personally, I have no real problem with that, especially if its the only way that new repertoire will still become available, although I know that's not a view shared by all.

[Jimfin]

I am learning to accept that downloads are the way forward. I mostly buy CDs now, but occasionally download from iTunes if I want something sufficiently quickly. The only thing I miss is the booklets with information in them. Some companies, like Toccata, offer them online, but I don't think it's at all universal. Of course, this has never really applied to pop.

[Ilja]

I can say that the internet has just about saved the unsung repertoire. The present proliferation of new recordings would be inconceivable without a medium to bring together an extremely geographically fragmented customer base. A positive side-effect of the disappearance of the CD will be that it will become even cheaper to produce new recordings, since the margins on downloads are so much higher than on CDs.

[jerfilm]

I can't imagine an online music retailer not going to downloadable MP3s.   Just think of the money that a small dealer has to sink into inventory - not knowing if this particular unsung/unknown CD will sell or not?

As for the booklets, I used to try to stumble through them, but the type is so small, I can't even read it anymore.  Wouldn't it be nice if they were available in electronic format, such as Kindle or Nook or as PDF files where one could download them and then increase the font size for something one is comfortable with??  Perhaps even make the booklet available free before you buy the music.......

Jerry

[Mark Thomas]

That's precisely what Chandos and Hyperion do, of course.

[Alan Howe]

How soon will all music be available 'in the cloud' anyway, with subscription being the means of payment?