Henry Charles Litolff 1818-1891

[JimL]

Jerry has the symphony.  I'd be keen on the overtures and symphony myself.

[Mark Thomas]

The four overtures can now be downloaded from the British Music thread in the Downloads board here.

[jerfilm]

Glad you did, Mark.  Has been a horrendously busy spring and I've not had time to attend to digitiing music.....

Jerry

[Mark Thomas]

Not too busy to prevent digitising the Symphony though, I hope. 

[JimL]

Wait a minute.  I'm a little confused.  The Robespierre Overture is Op. 55.  I wasn't aware that Litolff had composed an actual symphony.  Are we talking about the same work, or is there an actual Symphonie Dramatique?

From the works list it looks like there is no symphony.

[Mark Thomas]

Jerry mentions an "opus 55 Symphonie Dramatique" in his earlier post. I hadn't picked up that the Robespierre Overture is op.55. I had blithely assumed that there was a Litolff symphony of sorts. Maybe it's the same piece, in which case (sigh) another disappointment! 

[JimL]

Well, we can always hope that somebody records the Eroica VC some time soon!

[jerfilm]

If you go back to Balapoel's post of April 23rd, you'll see the opus 55 as listed as Maximillian Robesperre but not as an overture as was the original post of the list of his works.  So it appears to me that there is some confusion over what the actual title of opus 55 really is.   The opus 55 came to me years ago as the Overture, and when I listed it a "have", I was quoting from the 4/23 post.   I had never heard of it as other than an overture prior to that.  Sorry if I've caused some confusion.

Jerry

[Balapoel]

Well, tracing it back: Grove's lists it as an overture, but it was referred to as a 'symphonie dramatique' here:

http://imslp.org/wiki/List_of_compositions_by_Henry_Charles_Litolff

Also, to add to the (possible) confusion:

http://www.crlg.be/template.asp?id=biblio-list&auteur=LITOLFF
lists:
LE DERNIER JOUR DE LA TERREUR. 1E SYMPHONIE DRAMATIQUE

EROICA. SINFONIE-CONCERTO POUR LE VIOLON

LES GIRONDINS. SYMPHONIE DRAMATIQUE

[Mark Thomas]

No question of "possible" confusion! Not a very helpful list, the one from the Liège Conservatory - they list Maximilian Robespierre no less than six times! The "Symphonie Dramatique: Le dernier jour de la terreur" might just be a seventh listing, given the subject matter, or it might be an separate work in which case the mystery deepens.

[eschiss1]

HMB does list Op. 42. Eroica. 1stes Concert f. Violine mit Orch. received in January 1858... so I'm guessing it existed, but hoping it exists...

[JimL]

I believe this has been addressed earlier, Eric.  The full score and parts of the Eroica VC exist and may even be in the chute as we speak.

[albion]

No question of "possible" confusion! Not a very helpful list, the one from the Liège Conservatory - they list Maximilian Robespierre no less than six times! The "Symphonie Dramatique: Le dernier jour de la terreur" might just be a seventh listing, given the subject matter, or it might be an separate work in which case the mystery deepens.

There is clearly some confusion of terminology, probably arising from early editions:

full scores of four orchestral works were published by Richault, Paris (undated, but c.1850-52) describing each on the first actual page of music as Drame Symphonique (i.e. symphonic drama) and giving an opus number, whereas the title pages of the same editions list the four works as a set but term them Symphonies Dramatiques (i.e. dramatic symphonies):

1. Le Dernier Jour de la Terreur, Op.55
2. Les Girondins, Op.80
3. Les Guelfes, Op.99
4. Chant des Belges, Op.101

As republished by Litolff, however, these works are termed as follows:

Ouverture zu Maximilian Robespierre, Op.55 - Trauerspiel (piano duet published 1852, full score published 1856)
Ouverture zu Die Girondisten, Op.80 - Trauerspiel (piano score published 1852, full score n.d., probably published 1856-57)
Das Welfenlied von Gustav von Meyern, Op.99 - Musikalisch illustrirt (piano duet published 1857, full score published 1857)
Chant des belges, Op.101 - Ouverture dramatique (full score published 1856)

Thus Le Dernier Jour de la Terreur was simply retitled Maximilian Robespierre. Les Guelfes was also retitled - it is the same piece as Das Welfenlied von Gustav von Meyern.

From their scale and single movement structure I think that Symphonic drama is a more accurate description of these pieces than either Dramatic symphony or overture: it is entirely possible that the publisher Richault erred on the title page.

[Mark Thomas]

Crystal clear. Thanks, Albion.

[albion]

Dating is thus very problematic: all four were available in full score from Richault c.1850-52, but clearly several if not all may well have been composed earlier. I have altered the entries in the archive catalogue, where they are now listed as

Maximilian Robespierre (Le Dernier Jour de la Terreur), symphonic drama [No.1], Op.55 (c.1850-52)

Les Girondins, symphonic drama [No.2], Op.80 (c.1850-52)

Chant des Belges, symphonic drama [No.4], Op.101 (c.1850-52)

All that is lacking is a recording of Les Guelfes (Das Welfenlied von Gustav von Meyern), symphonic drama [No.3], Op.99.