Erkki Melartin's third Symphony

[britishcomposer]

Very sad to hear about the cuts.
We had alternative versions of other Melartin symphonies in our archive but I cannot find them any longer. (No. 5 and 6?)
I was wondering if those were uncut performances. Has anyone downloaded those versions and compared them to the Ondine-Grin-Tampere recordings?

[eschiss1]

the Jalas recording of no.6 is broadcast over BBC occasionally, I know (along with his violin concerto and suite, I think...)

[britishcomposer]

Ah, that's why I didn't dowload No. 6! I used to have it myself but gave it up when I bought the Ondine set. I couldn't tell a difference when first listening to the Grin version. Were there definitely cuts in Grin's No. 6?

[chill319]

Many thanks, Jani. You spread enlightenment!

Seconded! The Melartin symphony that first won me over was the fourth, which sounded shapely as well as melodically and harmonically attractive. When I first heard the third, however, I couldn't help but notice Melartin's less than masterly control of structure. I fell back on the old canard: namely, that he was another "miniaturist" whose instincts favored local effect over long line.

It's so pleasant to find out that I haven't really heard the way he handles long line in his third symphony. What a thrill it would be to see Chandos release it with Martyn Brabbins conducting a well-rehearsed orchestra -- perhaps his Nagoya PO (which performed, for instance, the Lemminkäinen Suite last April). Just a daydream...

[TerraEpon]

Is there something wrong with the Ondine set (which by coincidence I'm listening to the first disc of right this moment)?

[chill319]

See especially replys 8 and 10 in this thread, TerraEpon.

[TerraEpon]

Oh huh. Yeah, a new recording would be nice then. I bought it simply based on a random Amazon recommendation and never regretted it.

[jani]

I just listened symphonies 1, 2 and 6 with scores. It's been a really long time I have heard these symphonies. 6th is the only one in the Grin's set that doesn't have any cuts. 1st and 2nd are pretty heavily cut. 1st has 8 cuts in total, that would be about 5-6 minutes music missing. In 2nd I lost a track of the cuts, because there are so many of them, always couple pages here, and couple pages there. So there must be at least 7-8 minutes of music missing.

Also I noticed that finale of the 1st uses material from Melartin's incidental music to the Sleeping Beauty.

[petershott@btinternet.com]

Thank you again, Jani, for this information. But it is all deeply depressing. What on earth was Ondine (in my view a highly reputable company who have provided a wealth of recorded material) playing at in issuing such truncated recordings of the symphonies - and not, as far as I remember, saying a word about these savage cuts in the notes accompanying the releases? It reminds me of the Metronome set of the Rubinstein piano trios - performed by the Edlian Piano Trio - issued a couple of years ago. I had looked forward to that immensely: all five trios made available together. But then was hugely disappointed to discover that much cutting and hacking had been done, and again, not a word about it in the accompanying notes.

A wicked practice indeed. And also remarkably deceitful. I'm also puzzled by the issue of who carries responsibility. Was it Grin's decision to perform cut versions? Or did Ondine insist on it, which would be odd since there is sufficient time on each of the three discs for more music? And what I don't quite understand is whether Grin and Ondine were acting in good faith since the recordings were based on scores available in the early 1990s (and supposed to be authoritative, but now discovered to be incomplete), or whether they were deliberately offering incomplete performances. If the latter, then why?

And again, I'm puzzled why all this issue has come to light now? From what I remember of reviews of the original releases (and then later the boxed set) there was no mention of cuts to performances. Why hasn't this been picked up? I'm disadvantaged by not being able to read Finnish and hence can't access relevant literature. But I've always had the belief that the Finnish Music Information Centre (or whatever their title) is a pretty astute body with plenty of scholars contributing to it. So why no word from them? Again, I have a hazy memory that one of the original individual releases of the symphonies was given a 'recording of the year' award by Finnish Radio. So were the latter likewise not aware of cuts? Is Melartin regarded as such an obscure and unknown composer in Finland that no-one is aware of the issue - that would seem most unlikely for the Finns are generally rightly proud of the riches in Finnish music and culture.

A whole bundle of puzzles here. But to end on a much more pleasant note: how enjoyable are the recordings of Melartin's piano music by Maria Lettberg (a 2 CD set released by Crystal a few months ago)! Some real gems here.....and hopefully none of them cut!

[jani]

Yes this situation with Grin's recording is really depressing. I don't know how much the cuts were decision by conductor (Grin) and producer (Siirala), but in the earlier recordings for Finnish Radio in 50s, 60s and 80s (by Hannikainen, Cronvall, and Jalas) there are pretty similar cuts in 4th and 5th symphonies, so I think some of the cuts may originate there. I'm pretty sure that Grin and Siirala had heard these versions, since they were only ones available at the time. Also, Melartin's autograph scores of these symphonies are marked with cuts, some pretty extensive, but not always. Melartin himself conducted these symphonies, as well as other conductors.

Reason why these cuts are just now coming to light is, the scores of Melartin's symphonies have been available only as a photocopies from Finnish Music Information Centre. Autographs are in the Sibelius Academy library, and not easily accessible until recently. Exeption is 5th, and its autograph is in Helsinki Philharmonic's library. Performance materials also have been in really bad shape. The same materials were used in the premieres of the symphonies. Now there is new engraved parts that match the edited scores, so performing these symphonies is much more easier.

I think because there haven't been much research on Melartin's music, no one has raised the issue until now. No one has taken a good look at the scores and I could say that Ondine people probably thought that since no-one is going to look at the scores, no-one would notice anything! If this would have done in one of the Sibelius' symphonies it would have been noticed and this would be regarded as a sacrilege, but since Melartin is not held at high regard in Finland, they must have been thinking that making cuts would not be a big issue.

It is indeed strange that none of the records is over 70 minutes, so extra music would have fitted there. Fortunately last spring Finnish Radio Symphony under Sakari Oramo did wonderful performance of 3rd symphony without any cuts, the first movement there makes sense.

Here in Finland only Sibelius is held at high regard. There is much Sibelius research going on, and there is also saying that composers are "in the shadow of Sibelius". But now there is also little interest in other composers like Järnefelt, Madetoja, Klami, Melartin, Pacius, Pingoud but still if orchestras want to perform Finnish music that is not modern, they rather play Sibelius than take symphony by Melartin or Madetoja.

[Alan Howe]

It's great to have your expert perspective on things, jani. Thank you!

[TerraEpon]

A wicked practice indeed. And also remarkably deceitful.

What's annoying is that they do it with even more popular stuff. I cringe every time Bernstein's recordings (either of them) of Rhapsody in Blue get recommended. Or figuring out if a recording of Rachmaninoff's 3rd PC has cuts (and which cadenza for that matter) is maddening. And the second symphony, as well.

[eschiss1]

So, I gather from a review, with Mussorgsky's Pictures (piano version).  I noticed an "opened cut" that shouldn't have been (the whole 2nd subject group, which the composer removed from the recapitulation - followed by a cut by Fellegi of the cadenza) in a Medtner work in Fellegi's recording of it (sonata op.39/5, for Marco Polo) but am aware that I'm now careening into what might be a different topic...

[Alan Howe]

Having just listened to Oramo's Melartin 3 for the first time, I have to say I'm greatly impressed. Of course, it's a lot longer (around 10 minutes) than the Grin recording which immediately leads one to question the version that was used for the CD (I don't - yet - know the CD version well enough to come to my own opinion about the relative merits of the two versions). But, secondly, there does seem to me to be a greater sense of expansive logic to the revised version. I do hope that Oramo will go on to record it.

[jani]

Actually in Oramo recording the 1st movement is how Melartin wrote it. Both recordings use revision of the second movement Melartin made in September 1907 after the premiere. The symphony was finished in 28.1.1907 and the premiere was in 5.4.1907 The Grin just cuts most of the development section. When Grin made the recording there was only revised score available in manuscript, and also engraved score that Oramo uses follows the same revised autograph.