Artur Schnabel, a foreigner in this forum ?

[Marcus]

This topic is probably not applicable to this forum, but I am sure the moderator will allow me this one indulgence.
In 1997, being an admirer of Artur Schnabel for many years, I purchased cds of his three symphonies.. I had not read any reviews, because as a lover of romantic & late romantic music, and aware of Schnabel's repertoire, & bearing in mind  his years of immersion in romantic repertoire, I happily made the purchase on spec .. It was a great shock to my system to hear these symphonies, as they spoke a foreign language to me. Savagely atonal uninspiring music. A beggar for punishment that I am , I purchased the Chandos release of a few years back of the Piano Suite & Piano Sonata. I decided that it wouldn't be any worse than the symphonies. How wrong I was ! This is music you play when the mother-in-law is visiting. I guarantee, she will not hang around !
There is an old saying about a fool and his money ......

Cheers !
Marcus.

[Mark Thomas]

Don't worry Marcus, most of us have done the same sort of thing. It's the downside of the never-ending quest for that hidden, elusive masterpiece...

[thalbergmad]

The earlier Piano Concerto (intermezzo & rondo) is romantically inclined, but Schanbel abandoned tonality.

Never heard it, but i did have a short bash at playing it a while ago.

Thal

[Jonathan]

I too found Schnabel's piano sonata (and whatever else was on the disc) uninteresting and so sold the disc.  In fact, it was just plain horrible and I found it hard to believe that a pianist who (through his recordings) idolised Beethoven could write such music!

[Marcus]

Yes Schnabel was a revelation. (of kind) If I was able to meet him over a quite ale or two, I would ask him:
"What we you thinking ? It seems to me that you are rebelling against the romantic style of music which you championed so superbly. ? "
Perhaps, it was a subconcious statement, rebelling against his continuos & total immersion in the romantic genre.

Marcus.

[JimL]

There was a strong hint of his bizarre modernist proclivity in his cadenza for Mozart's 24th Concerto (1st movement).  It just peters out in B Major.  Then the orchestra comes in.

[chill319]

I may not get any more enjoyment than you do out of works like the Schnabel sonatas, Marcus. But I *do* think he belongs, at least tangentially, to this forum, and here's why:

I think you had to be there.

The experiments of Hauer, Schoenberg, and Schoenberg's students in Austria prior to the Great War were not intended to culminate in some Scriabinesque final Mysterium, and for quite a few war brought mysteriums and their aesthetic peraphernalia crashing down to earth. On the other hand, the early atonalists' blunt, hard-nosed insistence on prioritizing, as it were, expressive angst in all instrumental voices over the very notion of harmony looked and felt profoundly honest and brave to many composers disillusioned with fundamental beliefs they had strongly held before that War.

I'm thinking not only of people like Schnabel, who fully embraced atonality, but of late works by Carl Nielsen, Charles Koechlin, Frank Bridge, and perhaps (from hints out there) passages from Sibelius's rejected 8th Symphony, which verged toward that sound. (Also of works by Fartein Valen, Wallingford Riegger, and some of the Russians.)

The fact that few orchestras were willing or able to play the new music put particular emphasis on keyboard and chamber works, like Schnabel's. I'm always open to other opinions, but I do think his works are a deeply personal response to precisely the values he conveys when playing Beethoven.

I wouldn't claim the same for later generations, though. By the 1940s it was clear that the general run of Americans would enthusiastically embrace atonal music -- as long as it didn't last long and there was a bug-eyed monster or other horrific scene on the screen at the same time. Then, after World War Eleven (as it was sometimes read off teleprompters), atonality became the academic style par excellance, an almost invariably enervating listening experience. Meanwhile Claude Shannon at Bell Labs had created information theory, which demonstrates that the more perfectly random events are, as in dodecaphony, the less information they convey.

So far I count two such cultural "moments" in art music. The first, Ars subtilior, occurred in the environment of the Hundred Years War. The second, atonality, in the environment of the two world wars. Coincidence?

[Marcus]

Thanks Chill 319 for an excellent response. you are oviously well educated in the sphere of musical style & history.
I have the four Valen Symphonies, plus some of Riegger, and here again, I find this music very uninspiring. After all, isn't music supposed to uplift the psyche, inspiring, kind on the ear, and successful to the point where you must hear more of that composer's works ?
Fartein Valen , (1887-1952),is an interesting case, and musicologists no doubt, will tell you that his unique polytonality, and audacious style, did much for the develpoment of music at the time. But for me, an amateur music lover, this music does not satisfy or excite, as say hearing for the first time, a symphony from some previously unknown late romantic composer, such as Brull or Dietrich.
The mid 20th century is littered with "cacophonic music", and how many CDs of this music is sold ? I wouldn't like to depend on their sales for a living. I think modern day composers have seen the light, and, thankfully,  are returning to tonality. There is more to composing music just to satisfy your own ego, and the ultimate test is acceptance by the people. John Cage is another of these overblown experimentalists, and although he may have sold a few Cds in recent years, his music for prepared piano leaves me stone cold.

Marcus.

[chill319]

"But for me, an amateur music lover, this music does not satisfy or excite..."

I once attended a concert of new music with the expectation that I would be introduced to Darius Milhaud at the post-concert party. In the event, however, Milhaud was so distressed by some of the pieces that he couldn't bear chit-chatting with their perpetrators, so he skipped the party (ever the gentleman, he sent regrets).

I doubt there's anyone who loves music, amateur or professional, who isn't bothered by one style or another.

[Marcus]

Thanks Chilli (reply#8), as I have said before: that is the magic & power of music, hence the multitude of opinions on this forum.
As my father used to say:"one man's trash is another man's treasure". Although he was not referring to music at the time, and I would never call any music trash, (unless I could compose something better myself),  I think the message is clear.
Marcus