Van Gilse Symphony No.4 from cpo

[Alan Howe]

Probably an essential purchase for lovers of late-Romantic fare:
http://www.jpc.de/jpcng/cpo/detail/-/art/Jan-van-Gilse-1881-1944-Symphonie-Nr-4/hnum/2541241

[Dundonnell]

Great news

By conincidence...the cpo recording of the van Gilse Symphony No.3 has just popped through my letter box and I shall lok forward to listening to that too

[Alan Howe]

Actually, it turns out that inspiration must have been running pretty low in the 4th Symphony. Frankly, it's a pretty tepid affair, giving the impression that the composer didn't really know what to do with his broadly Straussian-Regerian late-Romantic language. Certainly - barring the odd gorgeous moment - the Symphony's not in the same league as the music by some other composers of the same period that cpo have been championing, e.g. Reznicek or Weingartner. However, I might have been having a bad day, so I'll certainly be listening again...

[Peter1953]

I received my copy today. My first impression is quite different. The first two movements gave me a pleasant listen, the slow movement is nothing less than moving and gorgeous, but the final movement is rather vague. As a whole Van Gilse's 4th certainly didn't disappoint me, on the contrary, but is definitely not to the same level as his 3rd. So far that is still my favourite Dutch symphony.

[Alan Howe]

To remind me exactly what can be done with this sort of musical language, I listened to Marx's Herbstsymphonie. Now that is absolutely gorgeous all the way through - like the richest cake you can imagine with whipped cream and cherries on top. However, the comparison's a bit unfair...

[FBerwald]

..... Marx's Herbstsymphonie. Now that is absolutely gorgeous all the way through - like the richest cake you can imagine with whipped cream and cherries on top. ...

Hallelujah!!!!

When will this Gorgeous symphony be commercially recorded!!!!!!!

[Mark Thomas]

I'm afraid that if even Peter thinks van Gilse's Fourth isn't up to the level of his Third, then I'm not going to dip my toe in the water as I too found the latter a very tepid listen. Just as well that we don't all have the same taste and, for the record, I find Marx's Herbsymfonie a very indigestible cake!.

[Alan Howe]

Marx's Herbstsymphonie. When will this Gorgeous symphony be commercially recorded!!!!!!!

It already has been. It's available as a commercial download here:
http://www.micmacmusic.com/product_info.php?products_id=659&osCsid=d461f7ecbf12ed9b2998645690c5245a

Word has it that Ari Rasilainen is keen to record it. The label would be cpo.

Anyway, apologies! Back to van Gilse's 4th...

[JeremyMHolmes]

To follow on from Alan's tip, the Marx Herbst Symphonie is also available to download in a performance conducted by the indefatigable Leon Botstein, either through amazon download or itunes.

http://www.amazon.co.uk/Marx-Eine-Herbstsymphonie/dp/B003XNCZFY/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1343417133&sr=8-1

Has anyone compared these performances (apologies for keeping this thread 'off tack'!!)?

[Alan Howe]

The odd thing about Botstein's performance is that it's only about 59 minutes long, so either he's much faster than Swierczewski (who takes 73 mins) or he makes some cuts. No idea which, though!

...Follow up: from the brief audio clips available, I'd say Botstein is much quicker!

[Gareth Vaughan]

I think you do need to get a move on in most late Romantic music - it's usually more effective the less indulgent the interpretation. As Mark says, the Herbstsymphonie can be a bit indigestible on one's first encounter, but it is a remarkable score and IMHO repays study. I can't enter into the discussion on the van Gilse symphonies, as I don't know any of them.

[Alan Howe]

I just have the feeling that van Gilse was at his best exploiting an idiom that wasn't really his own; the earlier music has a wonderful Straussian exuberance which the later music seems to lack.

[Alan Howe]

I think you do need to get a move on in most late Romantic music - it's usually more effective the less indulgent the interpretation.

That's an insightful comment, Gareth.
But why do I find Celibidache in Bruckner so moving? He takes half as long again as most conductors!

Anyway, apologies again and back to van Gilse!

[Gareth Vaughan]

I wouldn't class Bruckner's music as "late Romantic" really. There's a very classical feeling of structure and, indeed, restraint about his monumental edifices - they are almost Vitruvian in their clarity.  And, of course, Celibidache was an exceptional conductor.

[Alan Howe]

No, quite. I was just saying that slower performances are sometimes oddly thrilling. I would find it hard to accept Botstein's tempi in the Marx, for example. But then I got to know the piece from Swierczewski's performance.

Actually, this is a problem in general with unsung music when there is no performing tradition and when there is maybe only a single recorded performance available. My good friend, the late Dr Alan Krueck always had a soft spot for the old Desser performance of Draeseke's Tragica - which is about six minutes longer than either Weigle (cpo) or Hanson (MDG), whereas I find it somewhat perverse in the way tempi are pulled about.

Anyway, I doubt whether a different type of performance could rescue van Gilse's 4th. (Apologies, Peter!)