The skills of an all-round composer

[Peter1953]

Dear all, what is your opinion of this very general "statement"? If a composer is capable of writing an opera, I suppose he also has the skills to compose a symphony, a concerto, chamber music, or pieces for a solo instument. But, consequently, does it make sense that in the opposite way it's not automatically said that a composer of minor-scale works easily develops himself as a composer of the symphonic genre (if he wants to)?

Writing this, I think it's perhaps a nonsensical assertion. Not many composers wrote as their Opus One a symphony or a concerto (like Rachmaninov). Most composers start modestly and tried other genres as well in the course of time. A composer like Heller knew his limitations and never tried anything else than writing for the piano. Others wrote mainly for the piano but composed in their early years one or two works for orchestra to present themselves as a virtuoso (Chopin, Thalberg). A composer like Raff started as a composer of piano music and developed himself as a true all-round composer.

What do you think and which (unsung) composers do you have in mind?

[John H White]

So far as I know, Berlioz went straight in at the deep end: he apparently couldn't play the piano anyway. His own instrument was the guitar, but he went on to write what was for many years the standard textbook on orchestration!
    I myself have never been any good at the piano, so that I tend to write my pieces straight out in full score as I "hear" them in my head.

[monafam]

Don't necessarily want to start a tangent here, but based on the note about Berlioz and his guitar background, I wonder what, if any, impact the instrument of origin/preference might make on the development of a composer.

More on the question at hand -- Is it possible these minor-scale work composers are capable but for ease of publication, time-saving, etc. it's just easier for them to stick with those types, rather than than spending years perfecting a larger work?   I think I am of the naive thinking that a composer (reasonably taught/self-taught) should be able to write about anything...but then maybe I give people too much credit at times.

[JimL]

Actually, Berlioz could also toot a bit on the flageolet (a kind of flute) as well.  But to address the question posed about the guitar, Berlioz' voice leading and harmonic progressions sound very much like orchestrated guitar music!

[FBerwald]

Its interesting to note that Prokofiev - a self confessed Piano-Composer tried composing without the piano once (on his own account) and the result - The charming 1st Symphony!

[febnyc]

What about conductors who also compose?  Would these types qualify for the discussion?

If so, then from my experience, I would nominate Felix Weingartner - on the strength of his six symphonies and wonderful chamber works recorded by cpo - as the most interesting and "rounded" composer who essentially is known as a conductor.  In my opinion, Weingartner's compositions have more appeal, generally, than those of Furtwängler's, Szell's, Dorati's, Walter's, Klemperer's and even most of Bernstein's.

If not, then forget what I wrote.   

[mbhaub]

A long time ago, on a website not far away, we discussed at length composer-conductors, and came to the basic conclusion that there aren't too many men primarily known as conductors who also were fine composers. I have enjoyed the Weingartner symphonies very, very much, but even so I can hear why his music fell from favor. There are so many who have tried to fit in both worlds, but failed to maintain a foothold in the concert hall. There's one symphony though that I wish could find a permanent place, and that's Evgeny Svetlenov's first. If you like Russian nationalism (I sure do!) and music by the likes of Balakirev, Borodin, Rachmaninoff, Glazunov and company, you'll take to the Svetlanov immediately.

[Hovite]

Don't necessarily want to start a tangent here, but based on the note about Berlioz and his guitar background, I wonder what, if any, impact the instrument of origin/preference might make on the development of a composer.

It is often said that the style of Bruckner's symphonies is determined by the fact that his own instrument was the organ.

Is it possible these minor-scale work composers are capable but for ease of publication, time-saving, etc. it's just easier for them to stick with those types, rather than than spending years perfecting a larger work?

Some composer seem to have devoted their entire lives to composing symphonies or operas that never got performed. Brian and his thirty or so symphonies is an example. Elgar, on the other hand, wrote what his publisher wanted to sell.

[John H White]

I gather that people like Mozart and Beethoven managed to do both.

[Mark Thomas]

Ouch!

[JimL]

Beethoven, maybe.  I'm not too sure what Mozart's publication rate was during his lifetime.  Remember that he didn't use opus numbers (or used them rather erratically), hence the Kochel catalogue.  IIRC, his widow Constanze was able to support herself and her surviving kids quite nicely by offering up the publication rights to her husband's manuscripts to the highest bidder!

[John H White]

In the case of Mozart I was thinking of all the stuff he wrote to keep his employer happy together with lucrative opera commissions  contrasted with certain works that he, as it were, wrote off his own bat such as the last 3 symphonies.

[Peter1953]

Talking about Beethoven, a nice anecdote is what he supposed to have said after the successful premiere of his 5th piano concerto: "Now I can finally buy me a pair of new boots".

What are the reasons for composers to make music? To please others? To do something with their inborn creativity? A hobby? Just a pastime? To express feelings? A mission? Or simply just making a living by using talent?

[John H White]

I happen to believe that everyone of us has some work of art inside us, whether it be a symphony, a novel, a poem, a painting, a carving or just a piece of graffiti!
You'll notice I did not say a great work of art! I also happen to believe that we aught to try to bring any such work to fruition, if only for our own satisfaction. That's why I, as an amateur hobbyist, write crude symphonies, doggerel verse etc.