'Youth' Symphonies

[Balapoel]

Here I think we have an opportunity to uncover some gems. Many composers wrote symphonies before their 'No. 1'. Based on the few I've heard, they may be very insightful for changes in composer styles (e.g., Dohnanyi, early Strauss symphonies in d minor and f minor) as well as compelling works in their own right.

Sterndale Bennett
Symphony in Bb, Woo 20 (1832, 16 yrs old)
Symphony in d minor, WoO 23 (1833, 17 yrs)
Symphony in A, WoO 28 (1834, 18 yrs)
Symphony in b minor (abandoned?) (1838, 22 yrs)

Berwald
Symphony in A (1820, 24 yrs) available

Dohnanyi
Symphony in F (1896, 19 yrs) avail

Draeseke
Symphony in C (lost) (1856)

Eberl
Symphony in D, WoO 5 (1783, 18 yrs)
Symphony in G, WoO 6 (1784, 19 yrs)

Elgar
Symphony (1878, 21 yrs)

Enescu
Study Symphonies 1-4 (d, F, F, Eb) (1895-8, 14-17 yrs), only 1 and 4 are available

I'll put a plug here for Faure's 2 efforts (even though they're not 'youth')
Symphony No. 1 in F (1865–74) (Allegro, Andante, Gavotte, Finale), 1st movt pubd as Allegro symphonique, op.68, arr. pf 4 hands, L. Boëllmann (1895), movts 1–3 in MS, arr. str, org
Symphony No. 2 in d minor (1884) (Allegro deciso, Andante, Final), MS destroyed except for 1st vn part, themes of movts 1–2 revised in sonatas opp.108–9

Fibich
Symphony in Eb (score lost, quartet score survives) (1865, 15 yrs)
Symphony in g minor (lost except for incipits, piano 4-hand arr. Of scherzo, revised version of finale) (1866, 16 yrs)

Franck, Cesar
Symphony in G (1836-1841, lost, 19 yrs)

Franck, Eduard
Symphonies in a, g, Bb (29-41 years -not youthful, but his earliest published symphonies were 25 years later)

Fuchs (again, 10+ years earlier than his first published symphonies)
Symphony in b minor (1868, 21 yrs)
Symphony in g minor (1872, 25 yrs)

Furtwangler
Symphony in D major (1st movement: Allegro) (1902, 16 yrs)
Symphony in b minor (Largo movement) (1908; revised in 1941 as first movement of Symphony No. 1, 22 years old) Symphony 1 was published 33 years later

Goldmark
Symphony in C major (1858-60), manuscript (only Scherzo in e survives; see op. 19)

Gouvy
There is a Symphony in b minor (between Nos. 2 and 3) that for some reason was never published (1849, 30 yrs)

Hamerik
Symphony in c minor, Op.3 (lost), 1860, 17 yrs

Hartmann, Emil (3 symphonies not numbered, before No. 1)
Symphony in d minor, Op. 6 (1866, 30 yrs)
Symphony in e minor, Op. 9 (1867, 31 yrs)
Symphony in Bb (1871, 35 yrs)

Herzogenberg (lots here All these before the two numbered symphonies)
Symphony in d minor, WoO 1 (1866, 23)
Symphony in e minor, WoO 2 (1871?, 28)
Symphony in F, WoO 25 (1871, 21)
Symphony in d minor 'Odysseus', Op. 16 (1873)
Symphony, WoO 28 (1875, 32)
Symphony in c minor WoO 29 (1878 35)

Hiller
2 Symphonies  (1829, 1834, about 20 years+ before No. 1)

Klughardt
Symphony in C, 1865, lost? (18 yrs)
Waldleben, symphony, 1871, lost? (24 yrs)

Mahler
Symphony No. A 'Conservatory' (1876, 16 yrs)
Symphony No. B 'Nordic (1879-1882, 22 yrs)
Symphony No. C. in a minor (1882-1883, 23 yrs)
Symphonies No. D-G (1886-1888, 28 yrs)

Raff
Symphony in e minor (Allegro appassionato, Andante, March, Scherzo, Fugue) - nos 3 and 4 reused as 5 and 4 in Orchestral Suite No. 1, Op. 101 (1854, 32 yrs)

Reinecke
Symphony in G (apparently withdrawn), before 1850, 26 yrs

Rheinberger
Symphony in D, JWV 41 (1855, 16 yrs)
Symphony in c minor, JWV 76 (1857, 18 yrs)
Symphony in C (or c minor), JWV 81 (1857, 18 yrs)

Rimsky-Korsakov
Symphony in b minor (sketches, including scherzo in Eb in 5/4 time) (1869, 25 yrs)

Romberg, Andreas
Symphony in F (1785, 18 yrs)
Symphony in G (1788, 21 yrs (lost)
Symphony in Eb (1788, 21 yrs (lost)
Symphony in F (1788, 21 yrs)
Symphony in D (finale incomplete), 1792, 25 yrs

Saint-Saens
Symphony in Bb, R154 (1848, 13 yrs) (incomplete)
Symphony in A (1850, 15 yrs) (available)
Symphony in D, R15 (1850, 15 yrs)
Symphony in A, R. 159 (1850) (includes Scherzo, R. 156, and fragment of first movement, R. 158)
Symphony in c minor (1854) fragment, later reused in Piano Concerto No. 4)

Schumann, Robert
Symphony in c minor, Anh. A1 (1830, 20 yrs) (fragment; based on Piano Quartet, Anh. E1, 1828-9) (Allegro 13T, 2 mov 36T, 4 mov 68T)
Symphony in Eb, Anh. A2 'Hamlet' (1830-2) (sketches, incorporated into Symphony in g)
Symphony in g minor (Zwickau), Anh. A3 (unfinished, 2 movements complete, with sketches for 3rd and 4th; originally Op. 7) (available)
Symphony in c minor, Anh. A5/6 [Sinfonia solemnis' (sketches for 2 movements) (1 Andante - Allegro agitato 151T; 2 Allegro con brio 152 T; 3 Scherzo 161T; 4 Adagio 39T; 5 Rondo 239T)

Wetz
Symphony in d minor (originally Op. 8, but only Scherzo is given that number now) (1900, 25 yrs)

Zemlinsky
Symphony in e minor (1891, two surviving movements only) (1891, 20 yrs)


edit: added Huber
Symphony in Eb (incomplete, 1870-1877, 25 yrs)
Symphony in A (originally 2nd Symphony, but withdrawn)   1889, 37 yrs

[Mark Thomas]

So many intriguing prospects here; for instance: do the four early Mahler symphonies exist?

[eschiss1]

Nitpicking, but Gouvy's withdrawn in-between work at 30 years is a potentially interesting case of another phenomenon (like Hans Huber's - I think I recall extant in full, from RISM- maybe even performable with some editing? I'd like to know... - A major symphony, withdrawn between his official symphonies 1 and 2) - at 30 years he was no longer exactly youthful, less so in the 19th century I should think.

Not sure??? if Robert Fuchs' 2 early symphonies exist any more except as reports in contemporary journals (of the "A B minor symphony by the young Robert Fuchs was performed" - translating from German - sort.  One gets a bit of this with, say, Ewald Straesser, to mention just one, also- quite a few mentioned but where-are-they?... works.) (And then on the flip side, with Fuchs there seems to be this (fifth?) quartet in the Austrian library or at least in their catalog that... er... never mind.)

[Balapoel]

Well, that's why I have 'Youth' in scare quotes. The point is, these are symphonies outside the normal numbered oeuvre, and likely for reasons that will appeal to this community. Perhaps they were too old-fashioned or romantic for the times...?

Many of these may not exist - I've put 'lost' where appropriate. I think all would bear investigation.

regarding Mahler's, I don't believe they are extant.

[Amphissa]

Rachmaninoff, Youth Symphony in D minor, dated September 28, 1891. Begun immediately after completing the original version of his 1st piano concerto, only the first movement survives, and that ends so abruptly that one can surmise that he just abandoned the piece. His Manfred, also written in 1891, has also been lost or destroyed. He did not return to work on a symphony for several years. His first was completed 1896. In the interim, he wrote The Rock, Prince Rostislav, String Quartet No. 1, Caprice bohemien, and assorted solo piano works. His 1st Symphony, also in D minor, was so poorly received that it to was destroyed, but was reconstructed from parts many years later. His first successful symphony was the 2nd in 1908, completed 8 years after the 1st. One must wonder what might have happened if his first symphony had been better received, since in retrospect, we now know it to be quite a fine work.

Sorry for running on about a "sung" composer.

[Alan Howe]

No problem. Symphony No.1, although often recorded, hardly ever features in concert programmes.

[semloh]

So many intriguing prospects here; for instance: do the four early Mahler symphonies exist?

Wikipedia notes only two early Mahler symphonies:

1877 - "Student Symphony" - lost; rehearsed at the Conservatory under Joseph Hellmesberger, and rejected
1882-83 - Symphony in A minor - not performed; may be a more developed version of the "Student Symphony"

Authorities:
Carr, Jonathan (1998). Mahler: a biography. New York: The Overlook Press
Mitchell, Donald (1995). Gustav Mahler: Vol. I The Early Years. Berkeley: University of California Press.

Although it doesn't actually say so, it implies that the A minor symphony is lost.

Do we know anything about the other two?

[Balapoel]

The info could be from:
Mitchell's (1958) Gustav Mahler, Vol. 1: The Early Years. Faber, 1958 (revised with Paul Banks and David Matthews 1978)

From 'Gustav Mahler, The Early Years' Donald Mitchell lists a
'Conservatoire' Symphony (1876?), a Symphony in A minor (1882?-1883?) and a
Nordic Symphony (Suite?)(1879?-1882). None of them has survived to the
present day.


Additional info can be found here:
http://www.mahlerarchives.net/Mahlerites/sfiller2mvmts/filler2mvmts.htm

and possibly from the journal:
http://www.mahlerarchives.net/Mahlerites/naturlaut.html

More info from wiki:
The possibility of previously unknown early Mahler works emerged when, in 1938, the Dutch conductor Willem Mengelberg revealed the existence of an archive of manuscripts in Dresden, in the hands of Marion von Weber with whom Mahler had been romantically involved in the 1880s. Mengelberg claimed that these manuscripts included drafts of four early symphonies, which he and the German composer Max von Schillings had played through on the piano. Mahler historian Donald Mitchell writes: "Though one may perhaps be a shade sceptical about the existence of four symphonies, each of them completely carried through, the strong possibility remains that some important manuscripts, either early symphonies or parts of early symphonies, were to be found in Dresden." The archive was almost certainly destroyed in the bombing of Dresden in February 1945

[TerraEpon]

One can't forget Bizet, despite its popularity and the fact he only wrote one published symphony later.

[dgljr5121973]

If extant, where could the manuscript of the so-called "Zwickauer" or Jugendsinfonie g-Moll WoO 29 of Robert Schumann be located and has it been digitized? the same for the other early Schumann oeuvres.

[eschiss1]

Some autograph sketches of the C minor symphony are at the Juilliard School Lila Acheson Library. See RISM and RISM link 2.

I'd think either was published too recently for even the manuscript to be out of copyright anywhere, but I'm not really sure... (hrm. G minor Zwickau-Sinfonie Sym WoO29, published 1972 by Peters in an edition edited by Marc Andreae. Ok, that's more than 25 years, so whether the manuscript could be scanned depends on the copyright region.)

Notes to a recording of the 1832 Zwickau say "The autograph score of the second, slow movement exists in private ownership, but a readily performable original material has yet to be produced".

[John H White]

I'm 82, in my second teenhood  and I'm still working on my 3rd "Youth" Symphony.

[Ilja]

Two youth symphonies that particularly interest me are those by Langgaard ('Pastoral of the Mountains', written at age 16) and Korngold ('Sinfonietta', written at age 15 and, despite the title, a full-blown symphony). They're quite similar in scale, emotion and a general lack of restraint (to be expected from a teenager), and roughly written at the same time.

[Gauk]

I would put in a plug for the early Furtwangler as being attractive pieces worth an airing.

[giles.enders]

Dear John,
Do make sure you finish your third symphony, less other hands might decide to tinker with it after you have gone.  A jazz or twelve tone ending might be its fate.