Pierre-Louis Dietsch and the "other" Fliegende Hollaender

[alberto]

By-product (or collateral effect) of Wagner bicentenary I understand that in 2013, in Grenoble (23rd May) and Berlin (4th June) there will be TWO independent revivals of Pierre-Louis Dietsch 1842 opera "Troil ou le vaisseau fantome" (according to the Grenoble news) or "Le vaisseau fantome ou le maudit des mers" (news from Berlin).
The opera is on a French libretto by.......Richard Wagner (by him sold to the Paris Opera), adjusted by two French librettists.
The opera in Paris in 1842 stood for eleven performances and (if I have well understood) was never revived.
Dietsch appears to have been a composer and conductor of some merit, ascended to important posts.
I have no idea about a future broadcast.   

[Alan Howe]

Thanks, alberto.
Here's some more information on Dietsch:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pierre-Louis_Dietsch

[Mark Thomas]

It would be fascinating to hear at least one of the revivals of Dietsch's opera.

[Hilleries]

I didn't know whether to open a new topic on this or use this one, but this will now be released in two weeks, together with the Wagner. I listened to the samples on JPC and the Wagner seems fine from the orchestra's side, better than Weil's attempt at period-Wagner. The soloists didn't strike me as much, but I don't think that'll deter me from the performance (I'm more interested in the orchestra).
I couldn't get much from Dietsch's samples to get a picture of the piece, as some of them take a while to "get a move on" and then the sample is over.

http://www.jpc.de/jpcng/classic/detail/-/art/Richard-Wagner-Der-Fliegende-Holl%E4nder/hnum/3446478

[eschiss1]

Whole topic makes me think of the "other" Siegfried (Reyer's Sigurd) (which has however been recorded, in 1989.) (And as mentioned in Walker, at least one earlier setting of a related subject (Heinrich Dorn's "Die Nibelungen", conducted 1854 by Liszt) - Reyer's is probably later, published in the 1890s.)

[Derek Hughes]

When BBC televised a studio production of Holländer in the 1970s, they gave a short account of the Dietsch, with a couple of performed extracts. The work seems interesting only because of its connection with Wagner, and confirmed the principle that most unsung music is deservedly so. Dietsch, of course, later cocked up the musical side of the Paris Tannhäuser fiasco.

Of more interest might be Bianca und Giuseppe (1848), by Wagner's friend Jan Bedřich Kittl, to a libretto by Wagner himself. I've just noticed that a performance is available online ( http://www.operapassion.com/cd6950.html ). Wagner also started to draft a libretto based on Hoffmann's Die Bergwerke zu Falun for one of his many Jewish friends, the now forgotten Josef Dessauer. It might be interesting to hear some of Dessauer's music.

If one wanted, and were willing to breach period boundaries, one could assemble a nearly complete series of parallel operas on Wagnerian themes. In addition to Dietsch, there are:

Casella, La Donna Serpente (1928–31)
Carl Aman Mangold, Tanhäuser [sic]. Contemporaneous with Wagner's and independent of it.
Reyer, Sigurd, as already mentioned.
Tristan: Rutland Boughton The Queen of Cornwall (1923) and Frank Martin, Le Vin herbé (1938-41).
Lortzing, Hans Sachs (1840)
Doss, Percifal, written as a corrective to Wagner's version.

Can anyone think of doppelgängers for Rienzi and Lohengrin? There aren't many alternative settings of Measure for Measure: The New Grove Dictionary of Opera lists only a 1973 setting by J. L. Seymour. One version which perhaps rivals Wagner's in oddity is the rewriting as Measure for Measure; or, Beauty the Best Advocate (1700) by Charles Gildon, which includes in staggered episodes a performance of Dido and Aeneas. The aim is to soften Angelo's strict views on sex ('In hopes to Melt, and sweeten his Sour Temper'), on the assumption that no-one who likes opera can be all bad. Hum.

[eschiss1]

Worldcat does list some recorded music composed by Josef Dessauer, mostly Liszt transcriptions of his songs. I thought I'd seen his name in a  review of a very interesting-seeming CD "Richard Wagner im Schweizer Exil" (with early sketches for The Ring - Siegfrieds Tod, edited - and music by Wagner's friends, but apparently not Dessauer- Eschmann, Röckel and others though) ... no, seems not.

[mikehopf]

Not exactly a doppelganger, more of a parody: Audran's 1896 operetta: Monsieur Lohengrin.

This was broadcast on Radio France a year or two ago and I'm still kicking myself for missing it!

[BerlinExpat]

Mangold's Tanhäuser is being premiered in Annaberg-Buchholz on 27 April 2014!!!
http://www.winterstein-theater.de/index.php?hport=&mon=4#Spielplan
Their re-discoveries in the past have usually been very good but they don't seem to attract the attention of radio operators for transmissions :-(

[Derek Hughes]

I forgot about Heinrich Dorn's Die Nibelungen, which was performed in Plauen in 2004: http://www.sz-online.de/nachrichten/vergessene-nibelungen-oper-ausgegraben-671668.html.

In addition to Tanhäuser , Mangold also wrote a Gudrun.

[eschiss1]

Yep, Walker mentions the Dorn in "The Weimar Years" (part of his Liszt biography trilogy) since Liszt took an interest. Interesting to see it being revived- thanks.

[Derek Hughes]

The CDs of Dietsch's Le Vaisseau fantôme were broadcast on Radio Stephansdom last night. It was better than I expected, though the skilful harmony and orchestration often cried out for better melodies. The dance tune at the end of the overture was jolly, and there was an impressive chorus towards the end of Act I. I couldn't work out the functions of Erik (tenor) and Magnus (baritone), though Magnus seemed to be Wagner's Erik. About 25 mins in there was an effective soprano-tenor duet (Minna and Erik?): effective because Dietsch's professionalism enabled him to triumph over a rather short-winded and trivial melody. A soprano-baritone duet later was also effective, and melodically better.

An interesting revival. There seemed to be some influence of early German romantic opera (I was occasionally reminded of Lindpaintner's Vampyr), and it wasn't quite like any other French composer of the period that I'm familiar with.

[pcc]

I received the CDs as a birthday gift and have listened reasonably closely. I think Dietsch's 2nd act far superior to the 1st, which seemed a little constricted harmonically; that act's big aria for Magnus has a lot of stuffing and is the most arresting piece in it. I quite liked it overall, but it is really a one-off; I agree that it doesn't sound quite like anything else written around it. Interesting stuff, and I go back to it again from time to time as a car-travel CD.

[Mark Thomas]

I'd posted this yesterday in the New Recordings & Broadcasts board, quite forgetting that there was already a thread on the opera here:

Released late last year, but escaping my notice, was a fascinating operatic double bill: the original (unperformed) one act version of Wagner's Der fliegende Holländer, which he wrote for Paris, and the replacement work which the Opéra commissioned using Wagner's scenario: Le vaisseau fantôme by Pierre-Louis Dietsch (1808-1865). Dietsch's "The Phantom Ship" dates from 1842 and, as one might expect therefore, is very much in thrall to Meyerbeer in its writing for the voice. That said, this piece is no grand opera - its two acts last only 100 minutes or so, the chorus doesn't play a major role in the action, and the dramatic thrust is much less episodic and more concentrated than one is used to in Meyerbeer. Dietsch doesn't have his knack of instantly memorable melody, but the work is hardly tuneless, and in that respect I was reminded of another famous contemporary: Halévy. Le vaisseau fantôme has a dramatic and tuneful overture which could be by Auber, and Dietsch is no slouch with the orchestra - he clearly knew his Berlioz. You'll have gathered that the opera doesn't have the individuality of another recent discovery, Joncière's splendid Dimitri of roughly 30 years later, but it's by no means a bad piece and well worth investigating if you have a penchant for French opera.

I haven't listened yet to the Paris original of "The Flying Dutchman", but it is sung in German and the booklet describes in some detail the alterations (mainly some significant additions) which Wagner made to the score before its Dresden premiere.

The CD set is available from amazon.fr and for download from qobuz.com, where you can listen to generous audio extracts - to see the Dietsch opera tracks, click on the blue "Voir toutes les pistes (28)" button after the Wagner tracks. Of course, if you don't need another Dutchman, even a cut down one, you can download just the Dietsch.

[Hilleries]

actually, the Nelsson's recording in Bayreuth is almost this version (with the newer's names and changes in the text), and Bruno Weil also recorded the paris version (the problem is that Weil is boring).