Good Bundling or Bungling: compiling unsung music CDs with popular works

[Paul Barasi]

We can end up with countless copies of standard rep works just to get hold of the rarer stuff and as unsung music is often recorded by lesser performers that may mean buying inferior versions we never want to hear. But how else is unsung music ever to break through or overcome the commercial risk of producing it?

[Richard Moss]

Paul,

Reflecting some earlier comments about being able to download individual tracks.  If individual tracks are available, then:

1) Hopefully, that solves our problem of not having to buy whatever goes with the unsung of our choice

2) It also means that the album producer can now see which tracks are being bought from choice - so, if the majority (or even 'enough') of sales are for the unsung item, that should give encouragement to produce more of them

3) It also means that if any of us notice that individual tracks are available, we can use the good offices of this forum to let other enthusiasts know about it.

One possible downside is that if the producer had assumed a certain level of complete album sales to cover their costs, then buying individual tracks might knock a bit of a hole in their costings!  Some companies such as Dutton , Chandos, CPO, Hyperion etc. (our usual suspects) will often produce a whole album of 'unsungs' as well as sometimes appending them to otherwise standard fayre.

Perhaps Gareth or someone else with an insiders view of the industry might be able shed some better light on this?  It's a favourite chestnut, it seems on this forum and most of us comment without having much awareness of the real costs entailed in putting together items for a CD. 

Best wishes

Richard

[Richergar]

I am not a 'fan' of Renee Fleming, to say the least, but she has repeatedly programmed unknown (and quite deserving works) along with popular items. What comes to mind most quickly is a recording of hers in recent years reflecting great divas of the past (Homage) , and on that cd she sings the only (as far as I know) modern performance of an aria from Rimsky's very great opera, Servilia. The work has't as far as I know been performed since its inception in about 1903, although the full score is available (as are the parts) and it is unlike any other Rimsky, period. There were excerpts about 65 years ago with Lisitsianw which still float around and a few other stray bits.

Although I suppose one can make the case that opera 'stars' singing this kind of repertoire are about the identification of the singer with the progenitor, in fact both Fleming and, to an even greater extent, Bartoli, have taken a lot of trouble to make a fair amount of such obscure music available when the 'upside' for them professionally is not at all clear.

[Richard Moss]

Dear Richergar,

Your comments on artists who are willing to 'stick their neck out a bit' is most enlightening.  We can only presume that what's in it for them is based on their love of the music concerned.  Similar thoughts are echoed in the notes accompanying the recent Naxos release of the Waghalter VC (already really well-commented on in this forum).

It seems to me that, looking back over the years, there are the following main sources of unsung works:

1)  A sort of national centre that seeks to capture is own culture (e.g. Dutton for England, Portugalsom, Melodiya/Olympia for Soviet bloc, Norsk-kultur, Musicae Suecae, American Heritage etc) - unfortunately, this seems to exclude much of mainstream Europe, unless other UC members know otherwise?)

2) Short 'fillers' in old mainstream labels' releases (e.g. Ansermet, Boult et al)

3) Label owners dedicated to the cause (e.g. CPO, Cameo classics, Hyperion and many others)

4) Artists who make the effort to learn 'unsungs' (works or composers) and do the research/legwork to bring them to performing standards (e.g. the Waghalter VC mentioned above, Howard Shelley/RPC and many, many others).

5) Broadcasts of commissioned works (e.g. Radio 3) which somehow then seem to disappear again - is there no mechanism to ensure they do not return to oblivion having been 'discovered'?

6) Private commissions (e.g. Reinecke Cello Concerto) committed to CD

7) Last but not least (?) stuff seems to appear on YOUTUBE that, apart from all too many commercial rips, has never been heard of at all (e.g. college performances etc)

I guess as Alan, Mark and many others have often said, (i) releasing CDs is firstly a commercial business/gamble and (ii) we should thus be pleased at what we do get, not sad at all that we (still) miss.

It also seems to me, as a non-academic (and not too well musically-educated listener) that since where and how scores are stored (pace, Eric!) is something of a lucky dip and whether or not they are free to be used means that much will always just lie on dusty shelves (or that it were otherwise but life is life).

I guess we're left with an eclectic mix of artists, academics, authorities and producers to carry on 'ad hoc' unless UC (or ANO) say could organise a sub-section of the site where we could sign up to commit to buy (if we know the charges in advance and they are acceptable) specified pieces if enough UC members vote for it.  That way, the record producer might well get quite a bit of initial cover for their investment.  The money would be perhaps llike and advance order to Amazon - committed but only charged on despatch of the goods in question.

I don't know but I would have thought that orchestral works might be the hardest to bring back into the light because of the extra costs.  Is this what others find?

Thoughts?

Richard

[jerfilm]

Well, Richard, on the point of making some kind of commitment to a recording, there was a brief discussion on this very issue a couple of years ago.  It was pointed out that to commission a recording/orchestra/etc would cost a minimum of $10,000 USD.  Perhaps more.  At that point, I suggested that my wife and I would consider putting, say, $5,000 into such a project if it could be organized, others chipped in and we could agree on a project.

I didn't really expect members to jump right in and offer to pledge a thousand, or five hundred or whatever.  What I didn't expect was that not one person responded to the offer in any way.  It was as if I hadn't said it.  So of course it was still born, so to speak. 

I think there are possibilities along those lines but of course someone has to take the bull by the horns.  I'm soon 77 and simply don't have the energy.  But, for example, perhaps a non profit could be set up so that contributions would be tax deductible.  Don't know how that would work on an international scale.   Would need some research.  But it certainly would be relatively easy here in the colonies. 

Just a thought

Jerry

[Mark Thomas]

Jerry, many (but maybe not yet most) recordings of unsung music have some degree of financial sponsorship from individuals, organisations or the artists themselves, who quite often charge little or nothing for their time just to get their name and that of music they believe in out there.

It's no secret that I've dabbled in sponsorship myself and I've only ever committed my money to getting exactly what I wanted recorded. Much as I like the idea of getting a consortium together I fear that it would founder straight away trying to get agreement on what should be recorded. Which of us is selfless or wealthy enough to spend money on something about which which we're equivocal?

[TerraEpon]

Of course 'crowdfunding' with Kickstarter and other things is a thing lately. It'd be perfect I think for stuff like this.

[Richard Moss]

Mark/Gerry/Terrapon,

If (say) £10,000 is the sort of price tag needed to get a bespoke CD produced, then that requires (as an example) something like £10 from 1,000 people - about the cost, per person, of a couple of Naxos CDs or one Chandos, Hyperion etc. - probably a smallish part of what UC enthusiasts spend in any case each month on music.

If the cost/per person/per month could be kept to something low like this that we could subscribe to, and if all the repertoire under consideration was posted on a site where we could vote on it so only works that garnered enough votes went forward for production consideration, then we just might get enough funds and enough support to tempt a small label owner (or even 'own brand' NAXOS if they see commercial advantage???!!) to get involved.  It also means any one CD stands by those who have pre-committed to that one, so each month say different CDs might get different contributors committing (e.g. as new members join UC or UC teams up with other like-minded souls for this purpose.

I agree with Mark's point - very few of us would sign-off on 'unknown' (or 'to be defined') works on a selfless basis, nor are many of us sufficiently well-off to sponsor it 'blind'.  Likewise, by seeking to leverage the existing facilities of a professional label, then the work on 'financial contributors' might be minimised. 

Whilst, as a relative newcomer to the site, I'm very impressed by the knowledge, fair-mindedness and approach of Alan, Mark and the other seniors who would be well-able to suggested candidate repertoire to start the ball rolling, I'm also mindful that (i) anything leading to much increase in their current overheads would be a non-starter and (ii) we don't want 'choice of repertoire' leading to any further schisms, hence the suggested (web-based) voting arrangement.

I'll shut up now - I've tried all your patience too long already.

Best wishes

Richard

[Richergar]

No, it's fascinating (to me at least) and I don't think it's so different than, say, what Marston does (or did) or was trying to do.

I wonder what the economics of it all were when Walter Legge did his early subscriptions. Obviously they were almost unrecognizably different than now, but I would still wonder what the facts and figures were back then.

I think one of the sources, although probably not often spoken of, is when foundations for speciic composers actually sponsor productions in the hope that it leads to other things.

I wondered, for example, if Amberlin did that for City Opera when they did the combined Trouble in Tahitii I and II?

The record business generally is in a terrible fix, and we are the smallest part of it. All kinds of new deals and structures are trying to surface (some companies now try what are called 360 deals, which purport to manage the artist and book tours as well as make recordings, with mixed success).

I have spent a lot of time in the last couple of years traveling too much for my own good to small venues all over Europe to hear interesting works (almost all opera), and my impression is that in the last year or two a lot of them have pulled in their horns in terms of exposure to unknown works. This would have happened at the time of the crash, since there is always a kind of window of planning in which you can't change prior commitments. But generally now there seem to be two trends 1) fewer truly unknown works and 2) to the extent that there is rare repertoire, at least in the US and in opera, it is increasingly in 'modern' music that is not modern....I would call it bubble gum opera, though not trying to offend anyone. But safe, middle of the road music that is 'new' seems to be what people think the answer is at the moment.

[Richard Moss]

This echoes comments made previously by Mark et al - it's hard enough to get 'unsungs' performed in the recording studio - its even harder to get them performed in a concert hall!

I wonder whether concert impresarios are consciously rejecting 'unsungs' or simply not aware of them in the first place.  For example (maybe a bad one but I'm not a musicologist), to include a short work by Brull in a programme of Brahms would be work in similar vein but not too much or really offending any who want their Brahms raw and large (a bit along the lines of David Mellor's FM programme "If you like that, you'll like this").

Any feedback from anyone in contact with impresarios??

Richard

[Leea25]

The manager of an orchestra I know, who used to record for ASV and Naxos once told me that for a particular recording for ASV, the orchestra were required to purchase/take as part of their fee (I forget which) 5000 copies of the CD, so that the label wouldn't lose out if it was a flop. I don't think that is uncommon. I believe he still has a great many sitting round his office!

You'll notice, if you have the immense patience required, that scrolling through the 100,000s CDs on somewhere like emusic.com will show that there are far more unsung recordings of piano and chamber works than there are orchestral works, and a lot of the orchestral ones are re-releases or LP transfers. Unfortunately, an orchestra costs a fortune - music hire, rehearsal time, conductor/soloist/player fees, studio time etc etc. It all adds up. God forbid you should want to record a large choral work by a recently-deceased composer for example (i.e. he can't just give you the music!).

I'm definitely in the 'be thankful for what we get' camp, but i have to say, if I won the lottery tomorrow, I think I would flood the market with recordings of obscure russian music! Complete Napravnik orchestral works anyone?

Lee

[semloh]

We seem to have strayed from the topic somewhat, which I thought was the inclusion of works by Unsung Composers as fillers on CDs of familiar works. 

[Paul Barasi]

Yes we've strayed a bit. [Reminds me of a workshop I ran on why workshop participants, having been attracted by the advertised topic, then want to discuss anything but that topic. ... I never found out.] There are occasional gains from buying an unsung/sung compilation CD: discovering a well-known work you didn't actually know or had forgotten about; finding that this is well-played after all; or learning something from the programming, such as influences; or hitting upon an unsung composer because their works are akin to a famous one who you like. Mainly, however, this is rare and secondary. I seem to be more disappointed by CDs of unsung composers bought on the off-chance I'd like them but when I do find something I really do like then it more than makes up for that. I reckon that the mainstream classical repertoire is so huge that this squeezes opportunities for recording unsung composers and we are lucky to have the chances boosted when these are bundled with more popular fare.