John Knowles Paine: 2 CDs from Naxos

[Alan Howe]

Sounds interesting:
http://www.naxos.com/news/default.asp?op=1037&displayMenu=Naxos_News&type=2

[edurban]

Very nice.  It will be interesting to compare these with the Mehta/NYP recordings of the symphonies and As You Like It, but there has never been a first-rate Tempest and , if I remember, only the Moorish Dance from Azara has been set down before.  As Mehta was famously dismissive of the symphonies during the rehearsals, perhaps the results will show more conviction.

The business about "first American symphony" probably has Bristow turning in his grave.  Apparently this American conductor knows nothing of the history of music in her own country.

David

[eschiss1]

and Naxos has recorded some of those earlier symphonies too, I think. Then again, the accuracy of Naxos' program notes (they have, despite repeated attempts to correct them, repeated mistakes about Alkan and Delaborde - etc.) is about on a level with the syntax of the English of those of cpo (and yet even I have used them as a reference. For some reason. )

[TerraEpon]

The first American symphony to sound like Brahms?

Actually, I don't much like Brahms's first three but I do like Paine's 1st. I never bought the 2nd because I didn't like that one much, apparently.

[petershott@btinternet.com]

Re. the accuracy of Naxos notes - off-topic, but I can't resist.

At the end of the notes accompanying the new Naxos release of Eduard Franck's Op. 22 Piano Trio (a fine work, wonderfully played.....so no high-minded sniffing at Franck, please!) we get:

"It is gratifying to rediscover and reassess a composer who exemplified high art and high ideals when German Romanticism was at its zenith. As Shakespeare so aptly noted, 'The earth has music for those who listen'."

First sentence: a very bland and rather empty sentence. Second sentence: Shakespeare certainly did not write this. But then I'm now in receipt of a rather generous pension for having spent close on 40 years telling people to check their sources.

OK, red pen now tucked away and I shall henceforth behave myself.

[mbhaub]

'Tis a sad commentary on the state of all things orchestral in the US that Falletta is using the Ulster Orchestra to record this.

[eschiss1]

incidentally the full scores of the 2 symphonies, and the parts to the first symphony, are available for free download @ IMSLP (from Sibley Library, other sources.)

How's Krueger's 1959 recording of the 1st (as a performance, I mean, not as a recording?) Not sure if it's been reissued on CD- didn't know it existed until now, but that's my own ignorance.

[eschiss1]

There is one "first" that Paine does lay claim to, i gather- his 2nd was the first American symphony to be published in full score (by a publisher in the US (Arthur Schmidt, in a co-production with Cranz, 1880), that sentence may have to be finished? since I think Breitkopf, Cranz or some other publishers may have done the honor for one or more earlier symphonies- well, "firsts" are iffy, chancy affairs...)

(No, not the 1st- Paine's 1st wasn't published in full score until 1908, two years after Paine's death.)

[Josh]

What about Johann Friedrich Peter? And, despite his name, yes, he was born in what would become the USA. And seeing as he died in 1813, I'm not sure how Paine could beat that, whether Peter's Symphony in G was the first or not. I can't find any available recording of it, but it has been recorded at least twice. I wonder if enough people write to Naxos about this... surely, they can't leave proven false information in future reprints... right?

In any case, I think Paine's Symphony #1 is absolutely fantastic, whether it was the first symphony composed in the Americas or the 500th.  I don't see how more recordings and exposure can be a bad thing, but the version with Zubin Mehta conducting the New York Philharmonic might be kind of tough to beat.  That first movement especially was executed in superb fashion.  I'm interested to hear how people think this new one compares, but since I don't tend to buy the same piece more than once unless I've got a good reason, those reviews will have to be over-the-top with praise!

[eschiss1]

to correct a mistake I made, Falletta's claim that Paine's first symphony was the first American symphony appears in an interview of hers on the Naxos website as her opinion, not in Naxos program notes, I think. (... not yet anyway.) The CD is not yet released.

I have a notion that the quotes around the word "American" (I think?...) may be the point, too (as in, earlier symphonies were written here, but were too European to count.) In that case, I'm not sure what distinguishes Paine's first in this regard- Ives' 2nd maybe, or some earlier works. (Or if one wants an "American" symphony so badly, take Dvorak's 9th... I think Walter Piston or Roger Sessions had some choice words on Nationalism in Music as manifested here but- yes. Different thread.)

I've heard works by Peter though not yet his symphony; I have heard earlier symphonies by composers who took up residence in America, like Heinrich's programmatic symphony, and I think something by one of the Bach descendents that may have been written here - hrm, we may have still been colonies at that point, actually (need to check)- the only surviving copies of his symphonies were found in the US, it seems... anyway. Sorry.

[Alan Howe]

The release of Symphony No.1 has now been announced:
http://www.mdt.co.uk/paine-john-knowles-symphony-1-ulster-orchestra-joann-falletta-naxos.html

[semloh]

Yet another to go on the 'must buy' list! I cannot resist the pleasure of Paine. 

[Mark Thomas]

Steady on, Colin!

I'm not a huge fan of Paine, and it's some time since I played the old Zubin Mehta / NY Philharmonic recording of the Symphony and As You Like It, but I really can't imagine more persuasive performances than we are treated to on this CD. The Symphony still betrays its debt to Beethoven in every bar, but it's not a bad piece. The two shorter works are vigorous, melodic and well orchestrated in a rather anonymous, but attractive, Germanic idiom. The Tempest is a bit self-indulgently long, I think, but it's very colourfully done, so interest doesn't flag too much. Not works which I shall return to time and again, but certainly occasionally, and with pleasure.

[Alan Howe]

Tom writes:

Just got a copy of the new Naxos American Classics release of this new composer to me. His first symphony is a pleasant listen and could easily remind you of Beethoven. The jury is still out on "As You Like It" and "Tempest" Falletta seems to be pioneering some new composers such as Tyberg.
Tom

http://www.naxos.com/catalogue/item.asp?item_code=8.559747

[sdtom]

I know you changed the topic slightly Alan but it is a bit misleading because there is only a single CD on the new Naxos release.