Unsung Monumental Symphonies

[eschiss1]

I thought we had the Shcherbachev here, if I'm allowed to say that (will delete this if no). Still not sure what you mean, though. I did think that the work had an odd sort of double-exposition feel - four movements, then a ... well, maybe more a partial recapitulation with much different orchestration (including vocal orchestration) of the same and similar material) by way of a finale. Really good and strong stuff, though, and glad to be introduced to such things...

[kyjo]

X. Trapnel, thanks for replying about the Marx violin sonata. I'll put that on my want list . Re Shcherbachev, have you heard the Northern Flowers CD with his Symphony 5. It's non-vocal and less sprawling than the second. I'd really like to hear his other symphonies. I'll start a Marx thread so we can discuss there, X. Trapnel. That will keep Alan from pulling his hair out !

[X. Trapnel]

I was rather disappointed by the Shcherbachev 5th, and in general don't go for Soviet wartime stuff (I am only a Joseph Marxist). I was interested in the 2nd as a matter of course but also because it sets poems by the great Russian symbolist poet Aleksandr Blok (a great favorite of mine, analogous in significant ways to Yeats) and a large-scale musical expression of Blok's characteristic catastrophism (which would have been inadmissable during the Zhdanov/Khrennikov period) seemed to betoken a Russian equivalent of the Gothic Symphony (in which I am a true believer).

A Marx thread would be very welcome; I'm currently struggling to download the Swierczewski Autumn Symphony.

[kyjo]

Sorry to hear that you didn't enjoy the Shcherbachev fifth, X. Trapnel. I wonder what's wrong with the Marx download, I wonder if you could ask about this in the Technical Problems board ? I would love to help, but I'm no technology geek! Anyway, off to start that Marx thread...

[eschiss1]

Trapnel- but how about Karl Marx (the song composer) or Groucho Marx ... never mind.

[chill319]

Khachaturian - Symphony No. 2(I THINK)... It's supposed to be big and loud... calls for an additional 15 or so trumpets to the orchestra. I havent heard this. IS it any musical or just loud sounds?

Can a symphony stop being monumental simply by trying too hard to be monumental? Bartok seems to have thought so when he parodied the Shostakovich 7. Had the Prokofiev 5 or Khachaturian 2 been available to him, Bartok might have parodied them as well.

Several longish symphonies written during the period when Stalingrad was under siege are wide-screen, technicolor affairs, and among the composers who authored such symphonies none depended more on broad gesture than Khachaturian. He was something like the Henry Moore of Soviet art music.

For all that, when Khachaturian himself conducts his second symphony with the Vienna PO, the work expresses a clearly articulated and deeply felt inner world as well as an urgent, outward one (with marches and such), and I'm personally impressed and moved by the blend, though it isn't my usual cup of tea. When, on the other hand, Tjeknavorian speeds up the symphony and goes for a hell-bent adrenalin rush, most of Khachaturian's inner world goes down the drain, and the symphony sounds shallow to me. Haven't heard the Jarvi performance, but considering what a lost opportunity Jarvi's performance of Alfven's wartime symphony (5) is (Alfven's own recording is maybe a third longer than Jarvi's for a reason), I wouldn't be surprised if Jarvi in Khachaturian is similar to Tjeknavorian.

Subjective opinions, to be sure.

[kyjo]

I have the Double Decca set with Khachaturian conducting his second symphony. Why this symphony isn't played as much as the Shostakovich symphonies, I have no clue ! It is a very moving piece, with a blazingly powerful first movement clearly reflecting the oppresion of the people under Communist rule. It has those snare drum-laden climaxes that can really knock you out of your seat! The second movement is a colorful scherzo in the best Russian tradition, looking back to Borodin and Rachmaninov in particular (moments of it remind me of the latter's scherzo from his second symphony). The third movement is a profound, elegaic Andante which, in its thick, intense, string sonorities, brings to mind the Largo from Shosty 5. In the final movement, though, the sun finally breaks through the clouds with a majestic horn theme. Some may criticize this symphony for sounding like good film music, but for me it is truly monumental, but in a much different way than his third ! Thank you for mentioning it, chill319. A warning to anyone who has not heard this symphony: PREPARE TO GET BLOWN AWAY!!!!!

[fahl5]

OK I admit I am biased, since I myself produced the first existing recording but nevertheless Draesekes symphonic poem "Frithiof" WoO7 (1865) has very much monumental in relation to:
- a for symphonic poems unusual Dimension (longer than Brahms Symphonies),
- Orchestration (Inspired by meetings of Draeseke with Wagner writing his Tristan), and
- counterpoint (nearly half of the last movement is an very dense long fugato).
Here you can listen Draesekes "Frithiof"
best
fahl5

[Mark Thomas]

Thanks very much for the opportunity of hearing an otherwise totally unknown (to me) work of Draeseke's, and indeed all the other "resamplings" on your site, which I look forward to re-resampling! And welcome to UC, Steffen.

[Alan Howe]

I am extremely grateful for this opportunity to hear Draeseke's early Frithjof - I had no idea that it was such a big piece! Wonderful!

[jerfilm]

A really nice realization.  Thanks so much.

Jerry

[kyjo]

Wow, thanks very much, fahl5 ! I just hope I have the time to listen to it ! I was not aware of this monstrous piece. Another job for CPO!

[Alan Howe]

Another job for CPO!

They'd do a good job, but when would it come out?

[kyjo]

Quite, Alan ! When are they ever going to release the massive backpile of recordings they have? And the thing that really irks me is that they release all these CDs that they didn't say they were going to record but CDs I and others have eagerly waited for quite a while (Kallstenius and JN David symphony CDs) show no signs of being released. But at least I know what happened with the Holbrooke CD (Howard Griffiths broke his conducting arm)! Speaking of CDs we have been waiting for quite a while, what's happened to those Eggert symphony CDs on Naxos ?

[Alan Howe]

Who knows? But getting back to the topic...