Unsung Monumental Symphonies

[TerraEpon]

Yes, it's the 3rd and it's utterly banal and tasteless, with a bizarre organ solo.

One of my favorites. Banal, maybe. Tasteless, hardly. Fascinating indeed. It's like a musical trip while staying within the accessible Western classical tradition.

(Incidentally, the 2nd is monumental in the other way...)

[DennisS]

As a result of members of the forum referring to Sorabji and momumental symphonies, I listened to audio samples of some of his works and subsequently bought the 3 cd set "legendary piano works", essentially for "Le jardin parfumé" et "Gulistan". Listening however to both pieces, I quickly came to the conclusion that "quantity" definitely does not equate with"quality"! I could not detect, to my relatively untried ear, neither shape, line or melody in either work. I was left with the overwhelming feeling that here was somebody "randomly tinkling the ivories"! I was incredibly bored, in spite of trying to give the music every chance. On this evidence, there is no way I could endure listening to his symphonies, lasting hours!!!

Cheers
Dennis

[ahinton]

As a result of members of the forum referring to Sorabji and momumental symphonies, I listened to audio samples of some of his works and subsequently bought the 3 cd set "legendary piano works", essentially for "Le jardin parfumé" et "Gulistan". Listening however to both pieces, I quickly came to the conclusion that "quantity" definitely does not equate with"quality"! I could not detect, to my relatively untried ear, neither shape, line or melody in either work. I was left with the overwhelming feeling that here was somebody "randomly tinkling the ivories"! I was incredibly bored, in spite of trying to give the music every chance. On this evidence, there is no way I could endure listening to his symphonies, lasting hours!!!

Do bear in mind not only that this music may not be for you but also that you have formed your view on the basis of just one person's performances and that, had you instead sampled, for example, Marc-André Hamelin in Piano Sonata No. 1, Donna Amato in Fantaisie Espagnole, Charles Hopkins in Gulistan, Yonty Solomon in Le Jardin Parfumé, Fredrik Ullén in the first 43 of the 100 Transcendental Studies or Jonathan Powell in Un Nido di Scatole, St. Bertrand de Comminges or Passeggiata Veneziana (all works of a few minutes up to around 35 minutes duration), you might have felt differently - and the better recording quality on all of these would certainly have helped!

Best,

Alistair

[eschiss1]

I thought it was Khachaturian 3 that called for the extra trumpets (and organ). Anyhow, if it's the one I'm thinking of, it's fun, but musically a bit empty! Certainly not monumental.

Then there's Brian 2 with all the extra horns (all of them only used in the scherzo, if I remember).  Subjectively speaking I like that quite a lot. (But then I enjoy Khachaturian 3. And sort of want to hear Lokshin 2, which seems to bring in most everything, saxophones and all, maybe including the kitchen sink too. Looks fun if performed right, to the point, though...)
Eric

[DennisS]

Hi Alistair

You clearly know and love your Sorabji. I can therefore fully appreciate your comments regarding best versions, best recordings etc. I know only too well that there can be a huge difference in the interpretation of a work and I have in my own collection of multiple versions of symphonies, concertos, string quartets etc. where I have a distinct preference for a particular version! That said, I felt that you did not seem to rate very highly Michael Habermann's efforts at interpreting Sorabji On the liner notes accompanying the 3 cds, it states that Habermann, albeit on only one occasion, actually performed some of the Sorabji works in the presence of Sorabji himself. And Sorabji declared himself very well pleased with Habermann's efforts! If that is indeed the case, I can't imagine that Habermann's interpretation could be considered "poor", even allowing for subjectivity! That said, I myself was unable to get into Sorabji's music. I know not everyone would agree, but I found the journey long, I was not sure where I was going and was just relieved to get to the end! I guess Sorabji is simply not my cup of tea but I do appreciate that many people love his music. To be as openminded as I can, I will perhaps come back to his music later on and see if I still feel the same way.
Cheers
Dennis

[Empfindsamer]

Monumental symphonies?

This is surely in the number.
A 74 minutes mammoth written in recognizable late-romantic and "decadent" style (Strauss + Shrecker + Korngold + Schoeck + a bit of Mahler): very large orchestra (with piano and harmonium) and luxurious themes and harmonics. It's the first symphony written as a soundtrack. The conductor Strobel had to review the original score, almost worn out. I suggest you to give it a try.

[Empfindsamer]

And, of course, the First of Rued Langgaard.
I am very surprised that he had never been mentioned in this forum: he is the prototype of the typical late-ultra-romantic composer "transferred" in 20th century.
DaCapo has published a box set with his Symphonies conducted by Thomas Dausgaard. A real discovery for me.

[Ilja]

You should add that the rest of Langgaard's symhonic output is not remotely like the first, which he wrote when only 14 (an interesting parallel to Korngold, who wrote his massive 'Sinfonietta' around the same time and at a similar age). The 2nd and 3rd are roughly in the same idiom but with much shorter 'lines', and after that it becomes something which is hard to classify.

[chill319]

Rued Langgaard may not have a dedicated thread on this forum as of yet, but based on comments I've seen in other threads, I'm sure you will find quite a few knowledgeable Langgaard listeners here, Empfindsamer.

I'm not the right person to do it, but a thread devoted to the merits of, say, various late tonal composers' Symphony 13 could possibly shed light on the unusually strong individuality of such devoted symphonists -- Brian, Hovhaness, Miaskovsky, Langgaard, Shostakovitch, Harris, immediately come to mind -- and perhaps give us a little more perspective on a loner like Langgaard.

[Empfindsamer]

I said that because I tried to find Langgaard with the forum search engine, apparently with no results.

By Langaard, I love also his Nine, unquestionably romantic, dedicated to the beautiful Danish city of Ribe. It's not monumental (21 minutes long), but in my opinion it's a real gem.

[Christopher]

Reinhold Gliere's Third Symphony "Ilya Muromets"!  Has all the criteria that many have pointed to above - epic, long, "narrates" a battle fought and won while at the same time pointing to inner struggle. I'm glad to see that quite a few contributors above agree. In my view the best recording is by the BBC Philharmonic Orchestra conducted by Sir Edward Downes.

[eschiss1]

I said that because I tried to find Langgaard with the forum search engine, apparently with no results.

By Langaard, I love also his Nine, unquestionably romantic, dedicated to the beautiful Danish city of Ribe. It's not monumental (21 minutes long), but in my opinion it's a real gem.

Re Langgaard, not monumental at all, but my favorite of the ones I've heard so far is his symphony "Ixion". Successfully obsessive (and one of the briefer symphonies- or "symphonies"? - of modern times that I know of... at about 6 minutes.)
Eric

[giles.enders]

The title Unsung Monumental Symphonies, makes me think of the one by Josef Marx.  It has never been recorded and I have never seen the score but the Marx website has been extolling its virtues for years. Any thoughts?
Giles Enders

[Alan Howe]

The Marx has got to be the ultimate late-late Romantic, purely orchestral symphony. It packs an almighty wallop, but perhaps not often enough over its duration...

[eschiss1]

The Marx has got to be the ultimate late-late Romantic, purely orchestral symphony. It packs an almighty wallop, but perhaps not often enough over its duration...

*looks into this belatedly*
Herbstsinfonie, given its US premiere in 2008 (possibly its first performance in some 80 years after a few in the late 1920s in Europe???) (Botstein/ASO, the same group which is giving Magnard's Bérénice a performance next year I think, but I digress already)... apparently one live recording is available of a 2005 performance - here (source of most of this information - this blogpost. Admittedly, blogposts are not exactly "the" place to go seeking information, so caveat, etc. ...)

Eric