Anton Eberl (1765-1807): another Mozart?

[jimmosk]

I was just listening to Eberl's E-flat piano concerto op.40.

Beethoven must have been familiar with it, no?  I'm thinking he may have (unconsciously?) borrowed from the opening of Eberl's middle movement for the finale of his own Emperor Concerto. Nothing extensive enough to merit accusations... but I keep wondering if Ludwig had decided Eberl let the germ of a good theme go to waste, and put it to better use.
Have a listen-see and judge for yourself: http://www.amazon.com/Eberl-Piano-Concertos-Op-32/dp/B006G6KS0E

-J

--
Jim Moskowitz
The Unknown Composers Page: http://kith.org/jimmosk/TOC.html
My latest list of unusual classical CDs for auction: http://tinyurl.com/jimsCDs

[eschiss1]

Even if so, -what- accusations? I doubt either of them envisioned a day when one would be completely forgotten and the other- not so. Borrowing was, so far as I know, common, originality more valued than in earlier eras but not as much so as now- I think- and not of itself or for its own sake. Might be wrong, yes.

[jimmosk]

Well, it was later that same century that Brahms apologized to Julius Roentgen for lifting a melody of his for Brahms's Second Symphony; I just was tickled at the thought of that being an echo of an earlier, very parallel, situation.  But "accusations" was mostly tongue-in-cheek. The Tune Police are purely fiction... aren't they? 

[eschiss1]

Hrm... perhaps the Röntgen-Grieg-Stanford circle (only two thirds of which I know to be a fact; I am just guessing the third for story purposes... though I know Röntgen and Tovey were connected...) got their revenge then with Stanford's 3rd symphony... erm... I mean... of course they are.

[Mark Thomas]

Sorry Eric, I don't fully understand this. Are you saying that Stanford's Third Symphony lifts something by Brahms? If so, what?

[eschiss1]

am I thinking of the wrong Stanford symphony? The one whose slow movement seems to begin (or something- I should not write these things from memory. Must go check.) with a near-direct quote of the slow movement of Brahms' 4th symphony? I think I probably misremember completely, I should check again and listen again... sigh. Sorry.

Ah, not the opening of the movement, but p.105 of the full score of the work (from IMSLP.) See program notes for a discussion.

[JimL]

I thought that Brahms himself lifted that motive from an old liturgical hymn.

[eschiss1]

the discussion suggests that the issue is complicated, yes, but that Stanford may have heard Brahms' work before or while writing his symphony, so that - it's still complicated...

[Mark Thomas]

And on that note (or notes), maybe we should return to Eberl...

[eschiss1]

I'm surprised how little Eberl, compared with some other composers older and newer and less and more prolific, shows up in RISM - only 43 sources (at present). (36 manuscript copies, 5 "Druck" (typeset/published?), 2 autographs. Also in all 8 sonatas, 7 sets of variations, 6 symphonies (not nec. all for different symphonies, as usual, indeed four relate to his D minor symphony White 34, and one of those is an arrangement), 5 (related to) operas (or extracts therefrom, etc.), 2 cantatas, 2 concertos (fragmentary material to one, and a quartet/concerto for keyboards), 2 quartets for instruments (a string quartet in D - ms. copy in Munich of a work that was published by Mollo in his set op.13; and a arrangement for keyboards of one of his string quartets op.18)... also an aria, a fantasy, a sextet "Das Irrlicht" for piano, bassoon and strings, and a polonaise.  Still, though little seems to be digitized I think, for those with access to the relevant libraries and interest, there's something there, though again not as much as for some other composers, it seems (at least, not that RISM sees at the moment- other search tools and databases may see more. At least RISM includes incipits, which I anyway appreciate...)

[petershott@btinternet.com]

Wonderful how enthusiasm leads a chap astray! Ignoring all thoughts of Brahms, Stanford et al, it is worth remembering that Eberl in his lifetime had one whack of a reputation. If you poke around in music histories you quickly spot that many regarded him as potentially a major composer. (And performer). One symphony, I believe, was given in the same concert as the Eroica.

From the little I've heard (on disc) I'd certainly like to hear much more. There is a wealth of chamber music - although much of it now lost. A paradigm example of a now unsung, almost totally forgotten composer surely? Alas, poor Eberl - and indeed poor us!