Re Hiller symphony in F minor

[eschiss1]

draft version of first movement Flute I part for now uploaded here (if and when all done with the whole flute part, not to mention all the parts, will upload them to IMSLP, but for now, that's what the 442-bar - if I haven't miscounted- flute part looks like. Needs work, yes. Also needs some cues at the end of page 3, which I'll have to figure out how to put in using LilyPond - eh, I can figure it out. ... 25 bars of rest (spread over three pages in the score?...)   (yes, I know that's not at all unusual.)

Edit: updated link, 2-13-13.
Edit: found an important mistake, made a change or two, updated file and link, 2-18-13.

2-28-13 Celli part first movement (first draftish) - is here at Mediafire. Flute 1 part uploaded to IMSLP.

[eschiss1]

(Comment: yes, I didn't add nearly enough rehearsal marks - only four compared to quite-a-few that are needed. I will have done so before long. I hope this whole thing is not entirely inappropriate to this forum and no, I do not intend to provide any sort of inappropriately long typesetting work-play-by-play, I just thought I'd upload that first draft )

[Gareth Vaughan]

Excellent work, Eric. At bar 123 you are, of course, correct to sharpen the C (an obvious omission of accidental on the part of the composer), but the clarinet part has E flat, not E, because it's written in G minor; Hiller specifies clarinets in B (hence B flat because he was German!) at the outset and correctly gives a key signature of two flats for them.

[Hilleries]

Nice work! IMHO, the "a 2" signs are unnecessary, they may clutter the part a bit...

[eschiss1]

Gareth- thanks, that does clarify.
Hilleries- ah good- just going by orchestral scores, I really need to look at actual parts more... thanks again

[eschiss1]

btw, I was wrong about the "symphony, _op.4_" bit (besides the fact that he already has an opus 4, for piano). "Opus 4" refers to the website, not the piece- and can be found on the webpages of the other symphonies too. I took it to refer to something found maybe on the manuscript that hadn't been scanned in (likewise an autograph that Worldcat claims is there- maybe on the manuscript book these might be from.)

[Gareth Vaughan]

"a 2" is normally confined to full scores, but you can sometimes see it in parts where a pair of instruments is printed as one part together on the same stave with note-tails going in different directions to distinguish between the parts, though this method of writing parts is rare. However, where separate parts are produced for each wind instrument (or where they are given separate staves one above the other) it would be unusual to see it.

[eschiss1]

ah, thanks, this is sincerely good to know. I realize I may end up having too many questions like this though I will try to answer them with reference to actual parts (if older - not too much older... - and PD ones - i.e., how-it's-actually-done-generally-speaking) before asking too very many questions (some of my employers know I can be like this ). (File updated a bit and reuploaded. )

[chill319]

It was so exciting to see this appear on ISMLP last week. Yes, it might be considered 'prentice work, but it is considerably stronger than one might expect for an opus 4 (though not as mature as a Magnard opus 4!). Conservatively scored, of course, especially when compared to the first symphony Berlioz was writing in the same city at about the same time.  Of course, Hiller was still in his teens, so this work would be more fairly compared to, say, Mendelssohn's Symphony 1 or Schubert's Symphony 4.
The first movement is genuinely symphonic and pithy, the scherzo delightful. The Adagio seems to me sentimental and less inspired, at least on first reading. Haven't had a chance to read the finale yet.  Hiller's was certainly no mean talent as he closed out his teen years, nor did his ambition falter when faced with the formidable task of creating a dramatic symphony.  I hope we can hear it someday on real instruments.

[eschiss1]

Fairly sure I was wrong about the opus 4 bit, though the time would have been right (I don't think it was published anyway- or has been , except at Goethe-University and on IMSLP), and at least from my look-over of the first movement while typesetting the flute 1 part, I agree about the strength and sense of drama. Yet another of those works where if Beethoven was a major influence, all for the good. (I think I mentioned Onslow's symphony no.2 as a work whose first movement surprised me similarly very positively once, not that I am exactly contemptuous of his other works, or anything... or of Hiller's... etc. ...  I hope it does sound even about as good, not to exaggerate. Will get back to it within a few days and apply myself seriously, though with my developing and limited skills it will take a bit. Well, that's what challenges are for.)

And Hiller really was quite prolific at that age, it seems, from those other scans (at Berlin Library)- that incomplete overture in ms, several sonatas, other things- this could be the end of an early phase in which he'd had a bit of practice already. It seems to be about contemporary, from that Hyperion CD note and the contemporary published magazine that has a Paris concert report that it's sort of quoting that I tracked down (though that doesn't mention -which- symphony), with the first piano concerto op.5 (hence op.4 does seem especially appropriate even if not accurate.)

[eschiss1]

a 2s removed, link in first post fixed, hoping to get more work done tonight rather instead- thanks again

[eschiss1]

Hrm. Requesting advice... for much of the first movement, the cello in the manuscript has / written in. I am guessing this means "play with the bass part an octave higher" (since it does not mean, unless Hiller was a very, very proto-modern composer, any of the following-
(1) play in unison with the bass (basically impossible without scordatura, usually specified in advance for good reason )
(2) play the last bar heard before the slash line repeatedly (repeat-percent) - I don't even want to go into the harmonies and rhythms this would produce
Ok, I seem to be asking a rhetorical question- but there are actually two choices- the other ones
(3) \ is actually a misread full-bar rest
(4) playing an octave above the double-bass as noted.

Still, something happens on page 29 of the PDF (bar 231 of the movement) - "vcello tutti"? (or something, can't quite read the second word... with an ossia? bass part under it...) (violin I has d e fis e d e fis g a b cis d) - not sure what's happening on bars 231-4, and whether it influences how to interpret what happened before.

From the looks of things and the cross-out of the middle line what it looks like is that that's the cello line, the line under it is the bass line, the line over it (bars 231-on) was the cello staff, pages 29-30) but the composer changed his mind- eh, manuscripts   But I am guessing.

Temporary, tentative distinction of editing from sheer transcription (a matter of degree and not a clear definite line) -with editing, the editor makes choices and might be wrong.

If and when I have more of the parts done, I am thinking of testing out my limited piano-scoring abilities with LilyPond- not something I'm good at- but anyhow, trying to typeset piano arrangements of some of the movements of the symphony too, as a good way of increasing its exposure. The Capriccioso movement, I think, looks like it might benefit from availability in arrangement, if I can and if time allows. (If this is not a bad idea, anyway.)

[Gareth Vaughan]

Re. the cellos "slash" you are correct. It means they play the same written notes as the basses but, of course, sounding an octave higher.

From the looks of things and the cross-out of the middle line what it looks like is that that's the cello line, the line under it is the bass line, the line over it (bars 231-on) was the cello staff, pages 29-30) but the composer changed his mind

Spot on, Eric. That's clearly what happened. I've done the same myself!

[eschiss1]

not sure why an entire apparently blank page gets crossed out this way too, but ... the rest makes sense

[eschiss1]

hrm. should I add credit to Mr. Vaughan (and possibly others) in the cello part at least? May be only fair...