Ambroise Thomas 1811-1896

[giles.enders]

Charles Louis Ambroise Thomas  Born  5.8.1811, Metz  - Died  12.2.1896 Paris

He was born into a musical family and at the age of seventeen entered The Paris Conservatoire, initially studying under Friedrich Kalkbrenner and later with MathurinBarbereau and Zimmermann for piano and harmony, counterpoint with P J Doulen and  Jean Leseur for composition.  In 1871 he became director of The Paris Conservatoire and virtually ceased composing.
I would suggest that he was the greatest of the French unsung opera composers of the 19th century.

Orchestra

Fantasia for piano and orchestra  Op.6
Overture - lost
Chante du psaume laudate for violin and orchestra  1883

Chamber

Piano Trio in D minor  Op.3 
Romance for violin and piano  1835
Souvenir for violin and piano  1854
Quintet for two violins, two violas and cello Op.7  1835
String Quartet in G Op.1

Organ

Elevazione - dirge
Priere
Pie Jesu  1864
Absoutt 
Offertore

Song

C'est vous
Ange et Mortel - duet
Serenade
Le Soir
Ma voi sine
Sola
Adieu les beaux jours  1835
Doux abri  1835
Romance sur les paroles Anglais
Romance sur les parolles Allemandes
La Vierge Marie
Asur ma parole
La Chante du Couvent
Belle folle espagnole
Le Petit Chou
Le Berger de la Reuss
Fleur de neige
Croyance de Margayne
Baissez les yeux
L'amiable printemps
Belle, ayez petite
C'est le bonheur
La folle d'Yarmouth
La belle arene de Montigny
Amours Villageoises
The Blacksmith
L'extase
Summer Night
The Willow
Six Italian songs
France - part son Le Tyrol - part song
L'Atlantique - part song
Viens  1840

Voice

Messe d'Orpheon - credo only
Requeium Mass with chorus and orchestra  1833
Messe Solonelle sor solo voices, chorus and orchestra  1852
Bianca Capello - Scene lyrique  1831
Nel iginia d'Asti - scena et aria  1834
Duos Italiens- Teresa  for two voices and orchestra
Storia di Colombo - scena e duetto with orchestra

Cantata

Hermann et Kitty  1832 -won Prix de Rome with this
La Charite du Couvert  1852
Hommage a Lesuer  1875
Hommage a Boildieu

Ballet

Betty  1846
La Tempte  1889
Le Gipsy - in colaboration with Benoist  1839

Opera

La Double Echelle  1837
Le Peri uquier de la Regence  1838
Le Panier Fleuri  1839
Carline  1840
Le Comte de Carmagnola  1841
Le Guerillo  1842
Angelique at Medor  1843
Mina  1843
La Caid - operetta  1849
La Songe d'une Nuit d'ete  1860
Raymond ou la secret de la Reine  1851
La Tonelli  1853
La Cour de Celimene  1855
Psyche  1856
Le Carnavel de Venise  1857
Le Roman d'Elvire  1860
Gille et Gillotin  1861
Morale Religeuse  1865
Mignon  1866
Hamlet  1868
Esmeralda
Nadeshda
Francoise de Rimini  1882 - last opera

[Mark Thomas]

Thanks for this Giles, I hadn't realised that his catalogue was so extensive.

I would suggest that he was the greatest of the French unsung opera composers of the 19th centuary.

That may be so, but I must say that, namesake or no, I have found those of his operas that I've heard: La Cour de Célimène, Mignon, Hamlet and Le Songe d'une Nuit d'Ete, have all disappointed. I always feel as if he is composing with his head and not his heart and so, whilst the music is well constructed and orchestrated, his melodies are generally both passionless and unmemorable. The operas fail to engage my emotions. Maybe I've been unlucky.

On the other hand, talking of candidates for accolades amongst unsung French opera composers, I have always been intrigued by Ernest Reyer, a nephew of Louise Farrenc. His Sigurd, which I only have in a very poor pirate recording, is as safely Wagnerian as Massenet's Esclarmonde or Le Mage, but it has passion in abundance and I'd love to hear a modern, quality performance. There are four other operas and, of course, Le Sélam, a symphonic ode which was briefly available on CD and is a sort of enjoyable, and only slightly later, homage to David's  Le Désert.

[petershott@btinternet.com]

I rather enjoy Hamlet - though given the libretto and the tampering around with Shakespeare it is hard to take the piece with the seriousness I'm sure Thomas expected! (And always keen to push string quartets, there is a good Quartet by Thomas in E minor dating from 1832).

Ha, but Mark, you risk chastisement from those stern administrators by moving from Thomas to Reyer in a single thread! But yes, I'm equally intrigued by Sigurd and would love to hear a good performance. Or rather a good recording, for that which I have (a Chant du Monde set dating from about 1990, and conducted by Manuel Rosenthal) is a pretty woeful recording of what sounds like a quite spiffing live performance. It has an excellent cast for the time.

I can't really go along with your statement that the opera is "as safely Wagnerian as Massenet's Esclarmonde". For starters, the latter never sounds to my ears Wagnerian. Wonderfully exotic and sumptuous, yes; but Wagnerian, no.

And Reyer's Sigurd seems to me even further away from Wagner. He used sources distinct from those of Wagner, and I think worked quite independently of him and with no desire to imitate. (Remember that Sigurd received its first performance in Brussels in 1884 - but Reyer had started composing it in 1862 and finished the piece in 1879.)

In terms of musical language I don't hear much Wagner. There is surely far more of Berlioz, and it is written in a tradition going back to Gluck and Weber.

Where we can agree wholeheartedly is that a good modern production might turn out a glorious thing. Throughout Germany there are a number of medium sized opera houses with reputations for mounting successful productions of non-standard fare, many of which get recorded by CPO. We could do with more of such things in France!

Thanks for the reference to Louise Farrenc - I hadn't picked up on that one. But yes, the young Reyer, already related to the Farrenc family, was dispatched to Algiers to work in a government department headed by his uncle Louis Farrenc. When he defied his parent's objection to a musical career and hop-footed it to Paris (in 1848) he then benefitted from his kinship with Aristide Farrenc - who had married Jeanne-Louise Dumont. And it was Louise who took him in hand and directed his musical studies. Ah, what did we do before the internet?

[Mark Thomas]

I'll get this reply on Reyer in before Alan, quite rightly, reminds me that we should be discussing Thomas! I didn't intend to hijack Giles' thread.

What I meant by "safely Wagnerian", Peter, is that Massenet's writing for the orchestra in Esclarmonde and Le Mage was, according to contemporary commentators, influenced by Wagner, but that I felt it was only influenced to a very limited, and rather attractive, degree. "Sumptuous and exotic" is spot on. Reyer in Sigurd, reminded me of that, but I haven't listened to Sigurd for perhaps a year and if you hear more Berlioz than Wagner in it then I'm not going to disagree. Berlioz also influenced both Liszt and Wagner, after all. I wasn't referring to the Sigurd story's origins in the Nibelungen legend at all, by the way. I had quite forgotten about that.

[Alan Howe]

Sigurd was quite clearly prompted by Wagner's operas, but its idiom is an amalgam - there's Berlioz a-plenty in the mix. I must say I find that opera rather too declamatory - Lalo does it rather better in Le Roi d'Ys, I can't help feeling. Thomas' operas strike me as being utterly superficial creations, but I do like them, especially when they are well sung - they're a gift for a fine voice...

[strelsa42]

I feel that Thomas' full evening ballet scores may be well worth hearing. Judging by the "Fete du Printemps" from Hamlet and the divert from "Francoise de Rimini" [both recorded by the indefatigable Richard Bonynge] he had a very sure grasp of what was required for a brilliant, scintillating ballet scene in a 19th century French opera. I can always hear strong traces of Massenet in Thomas' operas, but of course it should be the other way round, as Thomas was an encouraging mentor to the young Massenet.

[giles.enders]

Thomas's ballet scores were not well received. Neither was his last opera. To take Mark's point about him composing from his head, that may be true but from the music I have heard I can say I would be happy to hear it all again.  Much of it not great but interesting.  I suspect Mark is a Wagner fan, now I have either seen or listened to amost every note he wrote and while I accept there is a genius at work, most of it I would not wish to hear again.

[Alan Howe]

I suspect Mark is a Wagner fan

You're on dangerous ground there, Giles. Whereas I am a Wagner fan and treasure all the music he wrote (Die Walküre Act 1 would certainly be on my desert island...).

[giles.enders]

I'm on safe ground as Wagner is hardly an unsung composer, ie not for this forum, though I would agree he may be best on a desert island.

[Mark Thomas]

I suspect Mark is a Wagner fan

Your suspicions are misconceived, Giles. I'm no Wagner-hater, but I'm no great fan either.

[petershott@btinternet.com]

And in that, Mark, you're joining company with just about every late 19th century composer I can think of - Wagner?, whether you hate him or worship him, you sure can't ignore him!

[TerraEpon]

Wikipedia reproduces the quote that I often remember about Thomas:
"There is good music, there is bad music, and then there is Ambroise Thomas."

But no matter. I find much of his music inordinately catchy (one of the first things I tried to find when I started buying a lot of classical after a couple years hiatus post high school was the Raymond Overture). I have to imagine I'd love his ballets....