Parry 4 >>> Elgar 1?

[Alan Howe]

Has anyone tried listening to the finales of Parry's 4th and Elgar's 1st one after another? It seems to me that Elgar's 'nobilmente' was impossible without Parry's example. Or was it the other way round (Parry's 4th was revised two years after the Elgar)?

Or is it me - again?

[Mark Thomas]

Parry's Fourth was composed in 1889, quite a few years before Elgar's First and the original version is available on Chandos. I haven't made the comparison between the two versions of the Symphony but that would answer the question perhaps? 

[Ilja]

From the booklet of the Gamba recording, which apparently contains the pre-revision version:

Always inclined to revise his symphonic works, Parry put the symphony aside after the London performance, perhaps feeling that he could still improve it. He was persuaded by Dan Godfrey to exhume the work for a performance at Bournemouth on 29 December 1904. Although he was pleased with the performance, he nevertheless decided to revise it extensively in 1909, adding a programme, an overall title for the work ('Finding the Way'), and an individual title to each movement. While he retained various ideas from the first, second, and last movements of the original version (which remained unpublished), much of the material was recomposed, and the original scherzo in A minor was replaced by a completely new movement in G major. A comparison of the two versions therefore serves to illustrate how very different the two versions are in demeanour, treatment, and content (for the revised version see [the LPhO/Bamert recording]).

When listening to them after one another, the revised version definitely sounds fuller and more "Elgarian" in terms of orchestration, which definitely helps create a sense of similarity. Melodically, however, not a great deal has changed. This might be a case of A influencing B, leading to A adapting their work using B's influence. An interesting observation.

[Holger]

Alan, I somehow had in my memory you actually did a comparison between the two versions a few years back, and indeed, starting from here:
https://www.unsungcomposers.com/forum/index.php/topic,6860.msg74153.html#msg74153
there is some discussion with similar results as in this new topic.

[Alan Howe]

We did indeed consider the original version of Parry 4 - thanks for the reminder. Yesterday I was listening to the Bamert/Chandos recording of the revised version (which is both a better work and a better performance IMHO) straight after Elgar 1 - and it simply struck me how much Parry there seemed to be in the Elgar. And then I remembered that Parry's revision actually came after the Elgar.

Of course, Parry 4 is hardly known at all. I don't know whether it's actually been performed in public since 1910...