Unsung Orchestral Variations (with or without closing Fugue!)

[Alan Howe]

....who seems to have extensively plundered our archive!

[Mark Thomas]

Indeed, but I take it as a compliment!

[Alan Howe]

Quite 

[LateRomantic75]

....so have "KuhlauDilfeng/KuhlauDilfeng2" and, to a lesser extent, "collectioncb2/collectioncb3". Indeed, Alan and Mark, you should take it as a compliment! What a magnificent archive indeed

[JimL]

I have opened up a couple of YT channels, and must admit that all of the above have spared me quite a bit of work.  Also, mention must be made of Tony (fyrexianoff) and bartje11.  I believe all of them must be, or at some point were, members here.  Tony was for sure.  I have corresponded with some of them through YT, particularly Björn (KuhlauDilfeng, I believe).

[John H White]

Franz Lachner's 1st orchestral suite of 1861 contains a set of variations that ends in a march.

[chill319]

A lot of the variations mentioned here are descendents of Brahms' "Haydn" Variations. What about descendents of Strauss's Don Quixote? Are any better aligned in that column?

[eschiss1]

Question here, too- does anyone know of any pre-20th-century examples of Variations-and (leading up to)-a-Theme (pre-Vaughan-Williams, pre-Britten)...

[JollyRoger]

Edmund Rubbra(1901- 1986)
Variations on 'The Shining River', Op. 101
Variations on a Phyrgian Theme, Op.105
Handel-Rubbra - Variations & Fugue on a Theme of  Handel Op. 24 (orch. Rubbra)
Rubba was unquestionably a composer in the romantic vein.

[eschiss1]

... just to be very picky, that's usually described, with some cause, as Brahms-Rubbra. Brahms wasn't quite that retiring.

[Alan Howe]

Rubba was unquestionably a composer in the romantic vein.

With respect, he wasn't. What he wrote might be described as 'modern tonal', but definitely not 'romantic'.

[John H White]

What do you mean by "modern tonal" Alan? Do Vaughn Williams, Sibelius and Shostakovitch come into that category? Personally, I think its very hard to classify composers by date, particularly if they wrote in more than one style.

[eschiss1]

Rubbra's music is usually, if I remember offhand (and somewhat correctly, I think) described as looking partially all the way back to the Tudor era and forward also, but not back to the Romantic era (diverse though that era really was).

(It's not that easy to categorize as a body of work any more than that of a number of other composers and maybe less than some others- Rubbra's first symphony, and some much earlier works, stand to his output as Vaughan Williams' 4th symphony stands to his, give or take, somewhat, for instance. Several of his works- possibly his first symphony (whose finale is a bit ambiguous in form- though not, I think, ambiguous in effect), but definitely his third and seventh- do conclude with fine variations-and-fugue sets- just not relevant to this particular forum.)

That said, I forget if I mentioned- listened to the Thuringian Suite (Raff, that is...) for the first time a few days ago and I take the meaning; very good variations set there!! (Among other things.) Meanwhile will be looking for some other worthwhile ones on IMSLP, DKB, elsewhere...

[eschiss1]

Recently uploaded to IMSLP and new to me are works by Karl Adolf Lorenz (1837-1923), mostly for piano or voice but including a set of variations and fugue (Symphonische Variationen über ein Original-Thema und Fuge, Op.98) published in 1914 by Schlesinger. Is this composer well-known to anyone and is there perhaps a private tape of this work (or even a commercial recording) in circulation, or ?... any information? The full score is uploaded, anyway (... better than what we sometimes have. Thanks, cypressdome )
Eric

[Alan Howe]

What do you mean by "modern tonal" Alan? Do Vaughn Williams, Sibelius and Shostakovitch come into that category? Personally, I think its very hard to classify composers by date, particularly if they wrote in more than one style.

Sibelius and Vaughan Williams clearly started off with both feet firmly planted in the sort of late romanticism covered by our remit at UC. Sibelius effectively stopped composing in the mid-twenties and his final completed symphony, although evincing a modernist preference for concision, is still written in a style which fits our criteria. VW, of course, continued writing for over thirty years after Sibelius, so that it is hardly surprising that he developed stylistically beyond the sort of predominantly romantic style that characterises his first two symphonies. The harsh dissonances found in his 4th and 6th symphonies, for example, take him way beyond our remit, although it is clear that he never abandons tonality. Shostakovitch, however, started as a modernist in the twenties and, while never abandoning tonality either, cannot be described stylistically as a romantic in the way that, for example, Miaskovsky can (compare the latter's Cello Concerto - surely one of the last throws of the romantic dice - with Shostakovitch's Cello Concerto No.1!!)

So, what I am distinguishing between are compositions whose style is in accord with UC's stated remit and those that aren't, but which still maintain a fundamental allegiance to traditional tonality. Sibelius' works fit fine (although Tapiola stands at the outer fringes, as it were); earlier VW is also a good fit, whereas much of his later music (although not all) moves beyond romanticism; Shostakovitch, however, is a prime example of a composer writing in a broadly tonal idiom too dissonant to be described as romantic (although there are individual compositions and parts of compositions written in a wholly romantic style, e.g. the slow movement of the 2nd PC and the Romance from The Gadfly).

I hope this is clear...