Applause after a first movement

[Christopher]

It's de rigeur in Russia.

[Alan Howe]

I trust it is actually de rigueur; maybe the same people who taught them French taught them silly clapping too...

[Gauk]

Here in Scotland audiences are very well-behaved and you have to be very, very good to get an ovation.

Incidentally, some posts in this thread remind me of a story about a proms concert many years ago. I don't recall the piece, but it had a sustained fortissimo climax followed by a hushed silence. As the loud music abruptly ceased, a voice was heard in the audience saying loudly, "... actually, we always put jam on ours".

[Alan Howe]

Here in Scotland audiences are very well-behaved and you have to be very, very good to get an ovation.

Quite right too. And no clapping in church either, I trust...

[Gareth Vaughan]

I too find applause at the end of movements, and "too eager applause" at the end of pieces very annoying.  Despite what we are told was the custom in previous centuries, I think it is quite simply rude - discourteous to the performers and to one's fellow audience members - and displays an insensitivity to the music.

However, I have no objection to clapping in church. A church is a meeting place, and not somewhere in which always to be solemn and speak in hushed tones.  When one first enters one should always show respect and not talk loudly because others might be praying - to do otherwise would be discourteous.  But if the church is being used as a concert hall civilised behaviour appropriate to a concert hall is not out of place. Nobody will be using the church for private prayer at that time.  The practice of refraining from applause in church seems to be a characteristic of a certain type of po-faced Anglicanism.  It is not considered disrespectful in Roman Catholic churches, Anglo-Catholic churches, Methodist chapels, or Lutheran churches, where concerts are held - at least, not in my experience.  Applause is an expression of admiration and joy - and God delights in such manifestations from his creation.

Following the Solemn Requiem for the late much-loved Robert Washington Shirley, 13th Earl Ferrers, in January at the Church of St Magnus Martyr in London, a table had been laid out in the North aisle and champagne (Robin Ferrers' favourite tipple) was opened and enjoyed by all. When his son, the present 14th Earl, thanked the Canon Precentor of Norwich Cathedral for his eulogy, there was tumultuous applause. It is also customary in many churches and cathedrals (Chichester Cathedral, Norwich Cathedral, Llandaff Cathedral; St Peter's, Eaton Square; St Mary's, Bourne Street; etc.) for those who have remained seated in order to enjoy the organ voluntary that has closed the service to clap the organist when he has finished playing to show their appreciation. This is a good thing and no disrespect to the Almighty.

[bulleid_pacific]

I was at a Bournemouth Symphony Orchestra performance of Tchaik 5 once where a lunatic who had no sense of musicality at all shouted "Bravo!" and clapped wildly at that point in the Finale where there are repeated dominant chords over a timpani roll, followed by a silent pause just before the E major restatement of the main theme.  He looked a complete idiot, of course, but the damage to the performance was immense....   

[petershott@btinternet.com]

I recall (vividly) the York Festival in 1969 coinciding with my graduation from the University. One of the major events in the Festival was a performance in York Minster of Mahler 2 given by the Halle under Barbirolli. The Minster was packed and there was tremendous excitement about the place. Difficult to appreciate now, but Mahler was then quite new to British audiences and had only recently been discovered. (Only a few years previously I had been a schoolboy, and I remember a music master exclaiming 'Who?' when I expressed an interest in finding out more about Mahler). I guess it was Barbirolli who was near the forefront of introducing Mahler to British audiences. Throughout the Festival I had landed myself the jammy job of selling programmes, directing people to seats and so forth - and in return I had almost a month's worth of free concerts and being able to choose my own seat.

So what's all that got to do with applause? Well, in a leaflet that I was directed to place on each seat before the audience was admitted the Dean and Chapter had expressed the wish that the audience at the end of the performance should contain their appreciation 'inwardly' and to refrain from applauding. It was, I suppose, entirely their right to do so.

I recall the most tremendous performance with orchestra, chorus and soloists giving it their all. It was also the very first time I had heard a Mahler symphony in the flesh, and I guess it was the same for most of the audience.

At the conclusion the audience sat there quite literally stunned. Barbirolli, then a very frail looking man, stood in front of his orchestra, head bowed, and clearly in some awe of what had been achieved. Two or three minutes passed. And then we heard some brave soul right at the back of the Minster near the East Door slowly start a solitary and heartfelt handclap. Within a minute or so this spread to the entire audience, and gradually the whole immense throng of people rose to their feet to continue this applause. Great waves of sound spread through the church. I think it was not only Mahler, but the sense that Barbirolli was near the end of his life and people wanted to thank him not only for this concert but his whole life's work.

In all my years of concert going I've never again encountered anything like it. The applause must have continued for 20 minutes or so, the orchestra and chorus joined in applauding their much loved conductor, and Barbirolli himself returned time and time again to the platform quite visibly moved. From my most privileged seat just behind the conductor's podium I could see tears streaming down Barbirolli's face. He died exactly a year later in July 1970, and I guess everyone in the audience was conscious that this would be one of his final performances. And what a performance! I think it must be counted as one of the most significant musical experiences of my life.

Now where was I? Ah, yes, applause, and in a church what is more!

[Alan Howe]

But not in a church service. Yuck!

[semloh]

Peter - what a great post! I would have loved to have been there. It's just the kind of reaction that great music should produce - and the mighty Mahler 2nd is great music. And not only that but in the splendour of York Minster, newly graduated - and there for free! No wonder you recall it so vividly.

[Mark Thomas]

A really vivid piece of recollection, Peter. I know York Minster quite well and your storytelling gave me a very clear image of what must have been a wonderful experience. My first exposure to Mahler's Second (in Leeds Town Hall) was not at all memorable, except for the music itself, the close of which reduced me to tears and, indeed, still does.

[mbhaub]

I want to contribute my Mahler 2 experience, I was in the orchestra however. The orchestra was semi-pro and the performance was far from perfect - but it was heartfelt and intense. Near the close, at the moment the choir uttered its last "Zu Gott", with another minute of orchestral playing to go, the audience rose to its feet and began clapping fervently. What the heck was going on? When the orchestra ended, the audience overwhelmed us with cheering, bravos, clapping. People were standing on their seats. It was the first time the Resurrection had been given live in Flagstaff. For us, it was a major achievement - and the effect on the audience was electric. It was a one-time concert with no repeat. I've played in far better orchestras since then, but the memories of that concert still linger. There is something special about the 2nd that very few other works have. Not even the Beethoven 9th has that effect on people.

[Alan Howe]

When applause is that spontaneous - and heartfelt - rules surely don't apply...

[eschiss1]

Seconded.

[ChrisDevonshireEllis]

It's not a bad behaviorial issue: (ie: clapping is bad manners) - it has never been bad manners to show appreciation. In fact in Chinese opera today the audience bring in food and drinks and talk all the way through. Which is probably understandable when the performances drag on for seven hours. At the tiny Ulaan Baatar Opera House in Mongolia, the locals applaud all the time. Having kids of six and even sit through Aida yet having them enjoy it at that age - even though they may not underdstand everything - is the starting point of the next generation appreciating our classical cultural inheritance. Who do we think we are to impose social conditions that restrict classical music to purely being an orchestral offshoot of 'adult entertainment'. How pretentious and snobbish. No thanks.   

Actually not clapping is a relatively recent thing, one can perhaps blame the British reserve for spreading this about from the late Victorian era onwards, prior to this anything went. And sometimes still does - consider La Scala, even today. Paying members of the audience also have the right to show their appreciation - or otherwise. Just look at the infamous premiere of "Rite of Spring" (see: http://www.guardian.co.uk/stage/2013/apr/12/rite-of-spring-rude-awakening).

Mobile phones etc are a no-no, that's a given. But applause? That's a matter of where best to place appropriate admiration within a performance . 

My personal view is that we follow contemporary protocol and wait until the end. However, there are certain performances where perhaps the audience could be encouraged to applaud if the conductor felt it appropriate. It could be written into the program notes. Plus remember, the composers themselves - those who wrote the actual music - left no instructions on the matter. So I guess they'd be happy either way.

This then means I suspect that it leaves it for the Conductor to decide. Maybe more should explain through their programme notes whether or not they feel it appropriate for an audience to applaud or not after each movement. As the interpreters of the music we are to listen to, I feel it is their authority on the matter that counts. And if a certain conductor feels a movement should be allowed a round of applause prior to the next movement beginning, I'd have no qualms about joining in. In fact doing so at weekend afternoon matinees may actually encourage more children to join in and be more engaging betwist audience, the musicians, and the composer. Certainly the Met, with an average age of about 103 of it's performance goers could use a little encouragement in getting the next generations to "pass the baton". Some performances have become more revered than is absolutely necessary. Music should not be socially intimidating or bound up in arguments over reserved appreciation lest we spoil the knot in our black tie. But neither do I appreciate the orgasmic whoops of joy before the final bars of a piece have had time to fade.   

The reverse point is also true however. Valery Gergiev, when conducting Tchaikovsky's sixth, always leaves his right arm stretched out at the end of the symphony for a good 30 seconds to allow the audience to fully appreciate a melodramic silence of Tchaikovsky's farewell. Rather more dignified that the immediate applause that would otherwise break out when one of Russia's finest composers has musically described the ending of his life. 

It's not a matter of good or bad manners. It is a matter of appropriate admiration being demonstrated at the appropriate time. And in  a multicultural world, the conductor should be the main arbitrator of audience participation towards a work he is solely responsible for interpreting. More guidance from conductors please, and less snobbery on the matter from the old farts over what constitute appropriate manners.

You'll all be expecting us to wait until the last person has been served our dinner to commence eating next, and then where would we be? I prefer my dishes served hot as the chef intended. Let the conductor be the arbitrator on the issue, not Debretts. And let's have a few more conductors let us know if they feel it is OK to applaud - or otherwise. - Chris

[petershott@btinternet.com]

I think, Chris, that (to use your term) I'll happily throw in my lot with the old farts. I'd much prefer the conductor to be concentrating on the music, rather than judging when it would be appropriate for a bit of applause. The conductor should surely be ignoring the audience - not her or his job to whip up a bit of enthusiasm in the auditorium. And heavens just think of how some conductors (no names!) would relish the chance to do so. It has nothing to do with snobbery - but concerts are about the performance of music, not crowd control.

And what do you do in the case of, for example, a piano recital? Does the pianist leap from his stool, grin at the audience, and exclaim 'Come on, folks, bit of applause now.....louder!'.