Contemporary romanticism in the Far East

[TerraEpon]

I've even seen people take the attitude that you're not allowed to criticize something unless you can do better.

[Gauk]

I know from experience one has to be careful with that sort of remark, no matter how it is meant.

Anyway, back to the music ...

[Alan Howe]

One shouldn't have to be careful, though - beyond avoiding the obvious use of inflammatory language. No: the problem is that which has been identified by other forum members - i.e. that mere negative assessment of someone or something is far too often taken as a personal insult, which is ridiculous.

With regard to music, this means that we must be allowed to say that a piece is second-rate without someone who holds a different opinion feeling offended. So, for example, it seems to me perfectly acceptable to argue that these far-eastern examples of romanticism are essentially second-rate (e.g. because they are derivative), while still valuing them for their virtues of melody, orchestration, etc.

[Gareth Vaughan]

The problem far too often these days is that negative criticism is taken as some sort of personal slight. In our therapeutic culture we apparently have to massage people's egos the whole time. The result, of course, is the abandonment of all discernment and the acceptance of mediocrity.

Very well put, Alan. Exactly so.

[Gauk]

With regard to music, this means that we must be allowed to say that a piece is second-rate without someone who holds a different opinion feeling offended.

Oh, of course. The only danger with the Amazon review is it could be taken as saying that something second-rate was very good for Japan. Rather than just saying it is second-rate, which would have been quite straightforward.

Actually second-rate music can also be enjoyable - I think the Hashimoto is worth hearing.

[Alan Howe]

Agreed. As long as our enjoyment doesn't lead to a lack of the proper objectivity.

[Gauk]

There is a quote I once read on the back of an LP sleeve, and sadly, I can no longer remember the exact quote nor who was being quoted, but it was something like, "The head finds fault, but the heart understands and grants pardon".

[Alan Howe]

I don't really agree with the head/heart dichotomy. It's far too simplistic.

[redrobin62]

Looking at "derivative" Asian romantic music, I'm reminded of their penchant for copying Western art in all its forms. To wit - the gangster films pouring out from So. Korea, Thailand, Japan and China all drip with Tarantino's flair. A lot of Asian fashion closely resembles, or are direct copies of, the stylings of Dior, Lagerfeld, Klein, et. al. The Asian kids are rapping now. They even have prosperous boy bands ala Backstreet Boys and N'Sync. Even their metal bands sounds eerily like Iron Maiden, Metallica or Evanescence. It is unfortunate that Asian romantic music sounds like [insert Western composer here], but I would admit that, on any given day, it's better than listening to most of the new music being created lately.

[eschiss1]

Well, threading "Romantic", "20th-century" and (appreciably not derivative) needles is asking for a bit. Those sets do intersect but the result is not large.

(It doesn't need to be added that not all Asian 20th century music is Romantic, of course- but the late, though not because (almost) executed, Yun I-sang comes to mind if an example were needed.)

[semloh]

The 'derivative' quality we discern in Asian music (the "Far East" of which you speak is actually the Far North for me!) isn't hard to explain. After all, the European classical tradition provides the models from which all composers, consciously or unconsciously, derive their compositional language. I suspect that only the truly gifted composers could easily transcend that process, and compose with an original voice.

Of course, this also relates to the issue of cultural context and impact of 'local' factors on musical style - perhaps even to the extent of the search for a 'national style' (which we have discussed elsewhere on UC). Australian classical music used to be criticized as derivative and 'un-Australian', and some composers overcame this by turning to local culture and context, e.g. by incorporating distinctive Australian sounds.

I must say that I always hope to hear Japanese instruments incorporated into works by Japanese composers.... even though I realize it is quite unnecessary! 

[Ser Amantio di Nicolao]

I must say that I always hope to hear Japanese instruments incorporated into works by Japanese composers.... even though I realize it is quite unnecessary! 

Yanking this back towards the original topic...

You may, then, find the Nagauta Symphony of Yamada to be of some interest:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nagauta_Symphony
http://www.amazon.com/K%C3%B3s%C3%A7ak-Yamada-Nagauta-Symphony-Magdalena/dp/B000SKJQUM/ref=sr_1_1?s=music&ie=UTF8&qid=1370274370&sr=1-1&keywords=nagauta+symphony

I'm guilty, to some extent, of popping the discs in the Naxos Japanese classics series like so much candy, and this is probably my favorite of the lot.  Briefly: the symphony takes a traditional composition for the Noh drama and pillows it, unchanged, in a symphony orchestra setting.  For lack of a better way to put it, I've described it to friends as being like a piece of jewelry, where the jewel (the traditional work) is set into a larger setting which complements it (the Western orchestra).  It's a fascinating work; I like it a great deal.  I'm not sure that others would - it's certainly a unique work, in my experience - but I find it very much worth a try.