Johanna Senfter 1879-1961

[Gareth Vaughan]

I think we are using "moral" in different senses. I meant that I don't see how moral judgements can be applied to art.

[Alan Howe]

I think Gareth meant music 'in and of itself'. I certainly did.

[Gareth Vaughan]

Yes, Alan. I probably wasn't being clear. Thank you.

[Alan Howe]

And with that, back to Senfter...

[chill319]

Senfter, like her teacher, grew up in an artistic world in which it was widely assumed that music was an effective means of moral suasion. Of Furtwängler, for example -- a contemporary of Senfter's -- one biographer writes: "Furtwängler believed to the depth of his soul that music was a force for moral good, a route out of chaos that would assist the cause of humanity. In 1943, he wrote: 'The message Beethoven gave mankind in his works ... seems to me never to have been more urgent than it is today.'" Whether or not such a belief is pretentious claptrap, as Alan thinks, it was widely held among German musicians prior to World War I. In mentioning morality above I was merely alluding to that well-known historical fact, not introducing personal opinion.

[Alan Howe]

The message Beethoven gave mankind in his works

Well, there's only a 100% clear message if words are attached. Otherwise music can merely suggest...

As for Beethoven/Schiller's message itself, I have my doubts.

[Gijs vdM]

Well, Stravinsky said that "music can express nothing", while others contest that "music expresses that which needs to be said but cannot be put into words". Perhaps the reason why vocal music often, at least for me, is less attractive than purely instrumental music. Exceptions abound, of course; 'Das Lied von der Erde' is almost unbearably expressive, to name but one. But Beethoven IX, Finale? Not his best music, in my humble opinion...

Senfter is interesting enough, judging from the little I know (4th Symphony). CPO? Adriano? Someone with a a pot of gold?

All best,
Gijs

[minacciosa]

I readily agree; Senftner is worth a LOT more investigation, which I'd love to do personally.