George Lloyd, BBC Composer of the Week

[John H White]

I've just noticed, thanks to the latest Radio 3 up date, that George Lloyd, whose music was so unfashionably tuneful in its day, is now Composer of the Week, every week day at 12 noon. Sadly, I've missed the first 2 episodes.

[Alan Howe]

Well, it's not all tuneful, John. The violin concertos, for example, certainly don't fit here. A case of an unfashionably tonal rather than romantic composer.

[britishcomposer]

I've just noticed, thanks to the latest Radio 3 up date, that George Lloyd, whose music was so unfashionably tuneful in its day, is now Composer of the Week, every week day at 12 noon. Sadly, I've missed the first 2 episodes.

John, you can listen again to each episode for seven days via the BBC iPlayer. For example, here is episode No. 1:
http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b02yjm6z
You just have to click at the "Listen now" button! 

[Gauk]

Well, it's not all tuneful, John. The violin concertos, for example, certainly don't fit here. A case of an unfashionably tonal rather than romantic composer.

The violin concertos seem tuneful enough to me - but I can agree that one would not mistake them for 19th C works. But then - compare them to the violin concertos of Taktakishvili, which are also not romantic. Can I ask for clarification: is the site policy to judge the man or the work? To be a "romantic composer" do you have write 100% in a romatic idiom, > 50%, or is 10% enough?

[Mark Thomas]

I'm not going to get sucked into this debate once again as each case gets taken on its merits but, broadly speaking, it's the work, not the composer. The golden rule is, if it was written after 1918, email a moderator before posting.

[eschiss1]

I'm of the opinion that there's (almost?...) nothing written in one century/stylistic era that could have been mistaken for something written (composed) in an earlier one, if "actually", hypothetically, performed then (especially when the change is 19th/20th.) (At best, composer not given, some of the most retrograde (so-called, I know) works of the 20th century might have been guessed to be the latest things of Liszt. An exception might be Bax's "Salzburg Sonata".  It's not just harmony , but progressions of harmony, but voice-leading, ... all sorts of art that the audience then -- knew, and later generations, I think, have lost the ear for. The vast majority of textbooks are too rigid if followed, the modern ear too modern and acclimated to the music it knows to be trusted, to get these things right in a way that would have been "mistaken for 19th century music" by an honest-to 19th century audience... (Medtner is another example here imho - I can't imagine his music being heard without demur ; the progressions  and harmonies in many of his works are often frightful by most 19th-century standards (even quiet things like some of the unsettling - well- maybe a bit Fauré-meets-Reger-like perhaps, so late-19th century?... - rapid modulations and progressions in the finale of the Op.56 sonata, but definitely the opening of the Sonata Tragica, e.g.), though positively demure (pardon the pun) by the standards of his own time.)

Also, innumerable student etudes could be passed off as badly-written examples of music of the past- but ... not counting that.) (The most obvious example of this is Kreisler- no bad composer, quite good in fact- trying to pass off works of his (with a smile and a wink, I rather suspect...) as concertos by Vivaldi, sonatas by ... well, yes, that's several centuries of gap, but I did say it was an obvious example.)

[Gauk]

I tend to agree, and I am rather surprised to hear Sibelius being described as a romantic composer on this forum. Up to and including the 1st symphony, perhaps, but thereafter he pursued a line of development quite alien to the 19th century romantics. Tonal it may be, but the way he organises material is completely different from the 19th century romantic style.

[Alan Howe]

Sibelius fits perfectly well within UC's remit. Now let's return to the topic, please.

[JollyRoger]

I've just noticed, thanks to the latest Radio 3 up date, that George Lloyd, whose music was so unfashionably tuneful in its day, is now Composer of the Week, every week day at 12 noon. Sadly, I've missed the first 2 episodes.

Thanks for the heads-up on the George Lloyd at BBC..
at the risk of being critiqued and lectured to, I will just say he is one very interesting composer.