Karl (1812-1883) and Hermann (1844-1929) Graedener

[LateRomantic75]

German father and son composers Karl (who has the same birth and death dates as Wagner!) and Hermann Graedener (or Grädener) have languished in obscurity even more than many of the composers that are discussed here. They are so obscure, in fact, that none of their music has made it onto disc. Enter Steve's Bedroom Band, who uploaded more than serviceable recordings of Karl's String Quartet no. 3 and Hermann's String Octet and String Quartet no. 2 to IMSLP, and we finally have access to some of these mens' work. As can be heard in these well-crafted, melodious works, Karl was primarily influenced by Schumann and Mendelssohn, while Hermann was strongly influenced by Brahms. Considering that my interests lie mainly in orchestral music, what piqued my interest most about the Graedeners is that they composed some substantial orchestral works. Karl composed two symphonies and a piano concerto (as well as three operas), and Hermann has two symphonies and two concertos each for violin and piano to his credit. IMSLP holds quite a few of each composer's chamber works, as well as as piano reduction of Hermann's Violin Concerto no. 2. Does anyone have any more to say about this intriguing father and son?

[eschiss1]

I agree with your curiosity . The Free Library of Philadelphia's Fleisher Collection has scores and parts to a number of Hermann Gradener's concertos and other works (e.g. Hermann's opp.20, 41, 47 for violin (no.2), for piano, for cello (no.2) - and Hermann's symphony no.2 in C minor ((c)1912) also as well as a capriccio), so at least they haven't been lost like so many works that now survive only in those piano reductions.

[LateRomantic75]

Thanks-that's good to know

[LateRomantic75]

I recently listened to Hermann Graedener's String Quartet no. 2 in D major, op. 39 (c.1905). It's a thoroughly conservative work for its time, but certainly not without interest. It has an open-air feel more reminiscent of Dvorak than Brahms, but of course Graedener doesn't have Dvorak's talent for instantly memorable melodies. Especially remarkable is the puckish scherzo, with ear-catching spiccato and even ponticello effects. Also, the expansive first movement is quite lovely, with some interesting harmonies along the way. This work should dispel any notion that Hermann Graedener was merely a Brahms epigone

[Alan Howe]

Hermann Graedener's 1st String Quartet in D minor (Op.33, 1898) is also a very fine piece: it has rather a post-Brahmsian feel with some lovely scrunchy harmonies and interesting harmonic progressions; of course it is basically conservative in style, but it is nonetheless lovely and again has the sort of open air feel that has been mentioned in respect of his 2nd String Quintet. It also not without its darker corners, as befits a piece in D minor.
Further info on these two quartets can be found here:
http://www.editionsilvertrust.com/gradener-h-string-quartet-1.htm
http://www.editionsilvertrust.com/gradener-h-string-quartet-2.htm

[eschiss1]

Also the full scores and/or parts of both quartets, and a recording of one of them, can I think be found at IMSLP, if memory serves (thanks, matesic, re the latter )

[Alan Howe]

I was just wondering whether friends had come across anything else by either one of these two fine composers since the last post two and a half years ago...?

[minacciosa]

An esteemed colleague of mine has for years shown interest in Graedener's 2nd Violin Concerto, even saying that she planned to record it. Nothing has come of this as yet.

[Alan Howe]

Graedener's 2nd Violin Concerto

Please excuse my ignorance - I assume this would be Hermann Graedener's VC2? If so, any idea what it's like? Toskey is pretty enthusiastic about the piece...

[Santo Neuenwelt]

Speaking of Hermann Graedener, yesterday I took part in an all day octet fest. We played through octets by Bruch, Bargiel, Raff, Gliere, Theriot, Mendelssohn, Malling, Gade, Svendsen and Hermann Graedener. (It did take all day with breaks for lunch and dinners---organizing octets always takes some doing to get 8 people together. We were a group of pros and good amateurs and we played for an audience of about 35 people, knowledgable spouses and friends.

Without talking about which was liked best, I will tell you that everyone overwhelmingly thought Graedener's octet (the Op.12) was the equal of anything and better than most. I will say that the Bruch was uniformly blasted and rightly so. A so called op. post. work which for all the world sounds like it was written when he was 12 and not 78. Poor Max, he left it unpublished for a good reason...

We did not speak of Mendelssohn which everyone knows all too well. Pity it is virtualy the only one heard in concert. The other real standouts were the Gliere, Malling, and Bargiel.

The Gade and Thieriot were considered pretty weak, while the Raff and the Svendsen were judged workmanlike.

Sadly, to the best of my knowledge, the Graedener has never been recorded. Hats off to Matesic for his effort which you can hear at the Edition Silvertrust website, however, because of his cello situation, one loses some of the extraordinary depth in the deep registers of the magnificent opening them to the first movement. Still very worthwhile hearing and a nice job. It would be great if we could get the Graedener and the Malling recorded. I think all of the others have been recorded at one time or another.

[Alan Howe]

Thanks for this fascinating account. Encouraging news about how the H. Graedener work was received.

[eschiss1]

Interesting! (I would have liked to hear how the Enescu octet- also an early octet, but a wonderful one in my own honest opinion- would have fared in the opinions of the company. It takes an excellent performance to hold together/cohere, but in an excellent performance...)

[matesic]

After reading Santo's kind words I listened to the H.Graedener octet for the first time in a couple of years - what a magnificent piece it is, although boy, do we need a proper performance/recording of it! I find that, as with a certain C major string quintet of similarly epic proportions, I really want to hear the first movement exposition all over again. But in my view the first movement is overtopped by the G-major variations of the third, where after a final dead march in which the second cello is required to tune his C-string down to B the theme makes its final appearance in Eb. Where did that heavenly idea come from? I hope someone (Eric?) can tell us.

[black]

I am quite surprised by the harsh judgement regarding the string octet by Max Bruch. Could you explain, Santo, what exactly makes it sound like the work of a 12 year old?

[Double-A]

But in my view the first movement is overtopped by the G-major variations of the third, where after a final dead march in which the second cello is required to tune his C-string down to B the theme makes its final appearance in Eb. Where did that heavenly idea come from? I hope someone (Eric?) can tell us.

I am afraid this is a mean thing to do to a cellist.  The peg on the cello does not click into place like a modern bicycle shifter, so to retune a string soundlessly is extremely difficult.  Also the string often won't hold the pitch as it is not "used" to be tuned to B.  In this case I can't even find a place in that variation where that B actually sounds.  Apparently he just wanted to avoid the open C string for the several long Cs that occur.  I'd ignore the scordatura request if I were to perform the piece.  Schumann did the same in his piano quartet (magnificent in any other way, far too unsung IMHO) and all cellists do a work around (in this case the lower tone is actually supposed to sound once) which is not too obvious as the piano provides "cover".