Bloch Symphony in C sharp minor etc. from Naxos

[Alan Howe]

I've always believed this is a great score that deserves to be heard more. In a concert world obsessed with Mahler, this would fit right in.

I agree that it deserves to be heard more often and that it would go down a treat with audiences. But I don't believe it's a 'great score'. It's too derivative for that; Bloch had yet to find his true voice.

[sdtom]

My review of the Bloch symphony
http://sdtom.wordpress.com/2013/09/28/symphony-in-c-sharp-minorbloch/

Tom

[Mykulh]

Bloch also wrote a "Symphonie Orientale" in 1896.. Wouldn't it be nice to hear this as well one day.

[sdtom]

I fear that our only hope will be Dahlia Atlas. Perhaps there is an agreement with Naxos in place to record with the London Symphony.
Tom

[chill319]

A few first impressions. The first movement is practically a diary of the profound impression Also sprach Zarathustra in particular made on a talented and ambitious young composer who had craft but not yet a personal voice. 

The young Bloch was clearly attracted to the enormous power and assurance of Strauss's great tone poems, and in his early phase of assimilation Bloch was not able to separate this from the plump, plain-vanilla harmonic progressions in diatonic sixths and thirds into which Strauss so often retreats after his astonishing dissonant 'set pieces'. (Like many others I'm fond of these sweet patches in Strauss, but they don't fit Bloch at all.)

I'd be interested in hearing forum members' thoughts on (among other things) who might be the musical model/s for the slow second movement (on first hearing the weakest movement).

For me the most interesting thing about the symphony is how Bloch starts to find his personal voice in the third and fourth movements. And the catalyst for that discovery clearly seems to be the music of Mahler.  The sumptuous Straussian textures and diatonic progressions are replaced by much more exposed orchestration and angular writing of a type that likewise revolutionized the musical thinking of other musicians such as Melartin. In Bloch's symphony the transition from the trio to the recapitulation of the scherzo is perhaps the high point of the work, blunt music of great freshness and daring for 1902.

The fugal opening of the last movement puts me in mind of the great, groaning animal world conjured up in the first movement of Mahler's Third. Whether Bloch's savage opening receives its full due when taken in jig time is, to my mind, questionable -- especially when following hot on the heels of a scherzo in compound meter. As one comfortable with Furtwängler's flexible tempos in such repertoire,  I'd like to hear the finale start slower and then proceed gradually to the sensible pace Atlas takes for the remainder of its exposition.

To judge from this score, Macbeth must have been the crucible in which Bloch's characteristic expressionism was fully formed. It is a style already deployed with continuous mastery in the 1913 symphony known as Trois Poèmes Juifs.

Despite being a remarkable achievement for a 21-year-old, I don't think the C-sharp symphony holds together as well as the (IMHO) genuine masterpiece a similarly aged Enescu produced with his first symphony or even as well as the buoyant, bracing young man's first symphony written by similarly aged Cyril Scott. Perhaps later auditions will change my mind.

Finally: I'm used to hearing cramped recordings open up and come alive on my home system, but in this case the high brass was strident and congested, whereas when I listened later on Sony headphones the sound stage was much more balanced and flattering for the brass.  You may want to experiment more than usual with tone controls.

[semloh]

I have been trying to understand why this excellent symphony has been so neglected. The first two performances, in 1910 and 1915, were well received, but the timeline at the Ernest Bloch Legacy site (http://www.ernestbloch.org/) does not mention any further performances until Bloch conducted the U.S. premiere in 1918. Then there are further U.S. performances in 1918. 1919 and 1920, and several during 1927. The timeline notes that it appeared on the programme of the Bloch Festival concerts Mengelberg held in Holland in 1929, and was performed several times in Britain during 1952, with the BBC orchestra under Clarence Raybould. And that's it! Less than a dozen performances are mentioned over a roughly 50 year period.

It seems that European conductors were reluctant to champion a manifestly Jewish composer in the inter-war years, with requests from Bloch for them to play his music repeatedly turned down. In the U.S., the Symphony seems to have been rapidly overshadowed by Bloch's other early works. The "racial" (not my term!) aspect of Bloch's musical philosophy is discussed in a chapter of a book reviewed in the first of the four annual Newsletters of the International Ernest Bloch Society (http://www.ernestblochsociety.org/newsletter/newsletter.html). Although the symphony is not mentioned in any of the newsletters, they are well worth a read.

I can't find any evidence of a 78rpm recording - in contrast to Schelomo and the Israel Symphony - nor of a broadcast performance (e.g. by the NYPO or the Phil.). The Bloch discographical site (http://claude.torres1.perso.sfr.fr/Bloch/index.html) lists only one LP recording - the St Louis under Robert Hart Baker (1984, Bloch Society) and three on CD - Gunzenhauser on Marco Polo, Markiz on BIS and Atlas on Naxos.

It seems that the first symphony just got forgotten, and whenever Bloch was included on the concert programme it was Schelomo, Baal Shem or similar that was chosen. I wonder if anyone on the forum can explain it? 

[eschiss1]

actually, a Bloch work more - serious, maybe? - than either of those works that's proven fairly resilient on the concert schedules I think is his violin concerto (and inbetween, his first concerto grosso, too). (Putting aside the fortunes of his chamber works )

[chill319]

The C# minor symphony has been neglected partly because Bloch wrote, after MacBeth, so many better works, including the Three Jewish Poems, the Israel Symphony, the violin concerto, the E-flat symphony, the sinfonia breve, the concerto symphonique, and the first concerto grosso. That said, I'm open to arguments that the C-sharp minor symphony is a better work than America, An Epic Rhapsody, which has been recorded numerous times (I don't know its performance history in concert).

[mbhaub]

Here's my argument: the C# Symphony has better tunes than anything Bloch wrote after it. This symphony wasn't the first Bloch I heard. The Concerto Grossos, Schelomo, Symphony in Eb, America!, violin concerto and more passed through my turntable. None of it made a deep impression or made me want to listen to it again. It wasn't bad music, just not memorable or stirring or something. Then along came the C# which I bought only because of the Marco Polo label and the blurb on the back. Anything of a Mahler/Bruckner/Strauss lineage had to be worth a listen. And it was. I've collected a fair amount of Bloch on cd since then, but honestly, I find the tunes, the harmonies, the orchestration of the symphony to be a cut above average. The tunes (esp that second movement and the trio of the third) stick in the head and make an overwhelming listen. I'm not alone: in her notes in the new cd, conductor Atlas states that she believes the symphony is Bloch's masterpiece, nothing after it was its equal.
PS: in the concert hall, the only thing by Bloch I have ever encountered is Schelomo - and by coincidence in all four performances I was playing contrabassoon. Did you know that David Ogden Stiers (played Winchester on tv MASH) is a huge Bloch supporter - ran a festival in Oregon?

[eschiss1]

It would have been - upsetting if Winchester had disliked Classical music after all...

[Alan Howe]

Here's my counter-argument. The C sharp minor Symphony is a glorious, but ultimately derivative piece - whereas his (equally glorious) Violin Concerto could not have been written by anyone else. Simple.

However, Bloch's later music is really beyond the bounds of UC...

[Mark Thomas]

Yes, I must admit that I love Bloch's C sharp minor Symphony not because it's by Bloch, but because it sounds like it's by a partnership of Strauss and Mahler (mostly). I honestly can't think of another work by him which I particularly enjoy, and certainly nothing which is, as Martin points out, as overflowing with fine melody as it does. Bloch has a firm place in that class of composers whose first serious essays into composition I really like, precisely because they don't sound like their mature selves! Szymanowski is another - I love his wonderfully Straussian Concert Overture, but not anything else.

[DennisS]

As coincidence would have it, I was listening to the Bloch symphony again this morning, prior to reading this thread. I have come to love the LSO interpretation of this work ( far superior to the Gunzenhauser Slovak Philharmonic's effort: better playing, better sound and the LSO really bring out all of the subtle nuances of the symphony!). Apart from the Straussian and Mahlerian influences in the composition, I am also moved by the Brucknerian-like climaxes, especially in the opening movement - very impressive!). Next up for me is the VC. It's on my wish list - maybe for Cristmas, I have been buying so many CDs recently, I've had to call a halt for the present! In the meantime, I am listening to the VC on Youtube.

[DennisS]

Just by pure coincidence, I listened to this symphony again this morning, prior to reading this thread. I have come to really love the LSO version of this symphony which is IMO far superior to the Gunzenhauser Slovak Philharmonic's interpretation: better playing, better sound, more stimulating tempi, especially in the opening movement where the LSO really bring out all the subtle nuances of the music! Apart from the Straussian and Mahlerian influences in the music, I was both impressed and moved by the Brucknerian-like climaxes, especially in the opening movement! I don't as yet have the VC (I have recently been buying many CDs and have put a stop to my purchases for the moment  - on my Christmas list, if I can wait that long!) but, for the moment, I am making do with listening to the versions on Youtube!

[DennisS]

I don't know what has just happened? I did my first post and posted it, only to find when I checked that the post was not there! Hence my second post. Now I see that both posts are there!!! Oops.....