A plea for greater discrimination

[Mark Thomas]

Well said, my sentiments exactly.

[Alan Howe]

Grading is only really any use for more objective matters such as quality of recording and performance. As for the music itself - our prime interest here - well, you have to have a proper written assessment of that, even if done by a knowledgeable amateur.

[Amphissa]

Of course, if I say something is a 9 -- well, nothing more need be said. 

[Alan Howe]

Quite. We trust your judgment implicitly 

[sdtom]

I do think that a rating system of sorts would be useful to compare recordings of the same work although many of the works wouldn't fall into the 'unsung' category. I use as an example the six symphonies of Tchaikovsky or the symphonies of Glazunov. What you enjoy listening to is your own personal taste and really doesn't matter what others think.
Tom

[petershott@btinternet.com]

I disagree with your last point, Tom. I'm always seeking to improve / enrich / extend my own taste, and the views of others (whether in print, or conversation, or on this invaluable site) are indispensable to my learning process. Without the stimulation given by others I'd be left wallowing in my own particular prejudices, and never having the incentive to discover new works or reasons to disturb my own views would be a dreadful prospect!

Nor do I like the idea of a rating system. A grade or a star or whatever is just a shoddy substitute for a reasoned viewpoint. Sorry - we cross swords on this one!

[Fronder]

Back to the original post, I appreciate your conundrum. I also have too little time left on this earth to waste listening to music I do not enjoy. And I have too little money to waste on recordings that are a shot in the dark.

However, it's really difficult to rate or grade music. Sure, a person can put a grade on a composition, recording, performance or all three. But what does it tell others? Only that this is your assessment based on your personal subjective opinion.

We've had repeated discussions here on UC over the years about quite a few specific composers. One thing that is clear -- there are those who really like certain composers and others who dislike those same composers. It is as true of unsungs as it is of the most recognized composers. There is no consensus.

So how informative would the grade of one person be? You would still need to know what other composers the person liked and disliked in order to create a context. If I rated a particular work a 7 on a 10 point scale, how would you know whether you would like it? Maybe you and I have very different tastes.

A grading scale is basically just a shorthand method for saying "I like it this much." So I concur with Alan. Justification, description, and comparison (when relevant) to other works or composers, would be of greater benefit to others than a grading scale.

Completely agree. For example I personally dislike Raff's symphonies and would not rate any of them above 6/10 (although I like Raff's works for piano & orchestra a lot), while founders of this forum have an opposite opinion. These ratings are too subjective and in most cases does not reflect anything.

What this forum needs is a section where users could ask for recommendations, e.g. where one may ask: "I enjoyed this and that work, but disliked that and that, what more works, in the style I liked, could you recommend me?". This section would be very helpful for the discovery of the unsung works, that you probably will like, especially for new users who have not yet read almost hundred pages of main page (see for example that topic on Rachamaninov-like piano concertos).

[TerraEpon]

Well, anyone can always ask such questions in the forum already. I don't think a dedicated section to it is needed.

[Mark Thomas]

Yes, always a perfectly good question, but no need for a dedicated board.

[Alan Howe]

Why not just start a new thread? - Something like: "If you like Schumann 4, you'll like...."

[pianobaba]

there are plenty more days when I want to refresh and deepen my appreciation of true masterpieces.

You differ from me in this respect as I actively avoid true masterpieces from the popular repertoire.

Sorry I must comment, but in this day and age, I find this opinion a bit odd. Not because most concert repertoire are not still hideously limited in repertoire (they most certainly are!), but because of the staggeringly enormous range of recorded music which is available. I have very firm control over what I listen to. So this means I don't hear Chopin's Ballades or Beethoven's Appassionata anymore often than I want to. Beethoven's 9th and Bach's Mass in b minor are arguably my two favourite pieces of music, but I have only heard the 9th once in the past year and have not heard the Bach. Conversely I've been listening to the Medtner piano sonatas almost ad nauseum recently . So when I do listen to a standard warhorse, it is only because I choose to, and often I have not heard that warhorse anymore often than countless other rare and obscure pieces, so its impact and my enjoyment is still intense. 

Though I do share your views of boring contemporary technically perfect conservatory-factory vs. golden age romantic pianism (and other music making, give me Mengelberg, Bruno Walter, Furtwangler please)!

[Alan Howe]

...give me Mengelberg, Bruno Walter, Furtwangler please...

I'll take the greatest from the past and the greatest from the present. The art of great conducting is emphatically not dead: I'm as grateful to live in the era of Claudio Abbado as I am sorry not to have witnessed Furtwängler.

[pianobaba]

Yes, I should temper the reference to conductors a bit, I am also very fond of Abbado and other contemporary conductors (Esa-Pekka Salonen and others), my complaint is more strongly directed towards pianists... I feel there truly was a golden age of pianos and it is not now.

[thalbergmad]

I have very firm control over what I listen to. So this means I don't hear Chopin's Ballades or Beethoven's Appassionata anymore often than I want to.

I have Radio 3 on perpetually at work to drown out the noise of the welder next door, so I don't have control over what I listen to.

The consistent repetition of "masterpieces" is beginning to put me off. I have had 3 Schumann Concertos already this year and I would rather have piles than hear it again.

Thal

[pianobaba]

Ouch, maybe try a pop station? CD's and headphones? Some sort of white noise device? I admit I'd hate to have any music forced upon me.