Sea Pieces. Orchestrated?

[kolaboy]

Today I happened upon Charles Johnson's orchestration of MacDowell's op.55 (Sea Pieces), and was not terribly impressed with the results. The opening "To The Sea" is especially bombastic in its new clothing...
But then, I've never really been a fan of this type of thing. Particularly in the case of Macdowell, where the music is so intrinsically pianistic... in it's new guise the softer moments come across as cloyingly as the elongated sighs in the dreaded Les Sylphides. Never enjoyed Faure's "Dolly Suite' in orchestral garb, either.
Why not expend this energy on recording the MacDowell piano pieces that have yet to be recorded?

Anyway, you can judge for yourselves. It's on youtube.

[chill319]

Johnson's orchestrations are decent, sometimes imaginative, but (to put it kindly) the Sea Pieces are like concentrated musical haiku that become distorted when mapped onto full orchestra; or (to put it unkindly) the Sea Pieces are too short-winded to give an orchestra enough runway to become airborne.

[sdtom]

Not one of my favorite sea pieces either. But if you would like to talk about Sainton or Glazunov sea poems those are two of my favorites "The Island" and "The Sea"
Tom

[kolaboy]

Sadly MacDowell has yet to be truly appreciated.

[chill319]

@kolaboy MacDowell had genius, but despite this he lacked self-confidence. At an age when many a young composer had written at least a half-baked symphony, MacDowell pared his own first one down to a miniature, The Saracens, that sounds like an orchestration of intriguing sketches. That's not the way to become truly appreciated.

On the other hand, MacDowell produced a group of piano sonatas that, taken together, represent the finest of their kind between Brahms and Skryabin.  One has only to compare them with Skryabin's, however, to realize how quickly music moved on after 1901. MacDowell did not move with it. Instead, he lavished his last creative efforts in 1904/5 on revising his first published opus.

[eschiss1]

... between Brahms' opus 5 (1853- composed before Liszt's B minor!?!?!?) and Scriabin ('s 1st?) (?!) - or between Brahms the composer and Scriabin (as this makes no sense, since they had overlapping lives, I assume you mean the former... a -- ... er... erm... er... debatable statement!!

(Even just reducing that to 1860-1890, there's some other seriously worthy candidates.)

[kolaboy]

To me, MacDowell is at the pinnacle of his art in the piano works - especially the sonatas. There his individual voice is unmistakable. I fear his orchestral development may have been hampered by his workload... and/or possibly by the realization that what he truly wished to say could be best said at the keyboard. That makes him no less a genius.

I DO hope that the sketches for his true symphony (referenced in the Gilman biography) see the light of day - someday. It would be more than interesting to know his last thoughts on the form...

[chill319]

Thanks for pointing out the chronology of the Liszt and Brahms 3red sonatas, Eric. I probably worded what I wanted to say poorly, but I was trying to compare _groups_ of piano sonatas by composers, not individual works. Liszt's individual sonata is incomparable, obviously. It has all of his strengths and none of his weaknesses. So is Berger's single piano sonata -- utterly superb. Also, fine groups of sonatas were written by others, such as Carl Reinecke. But to my mind, none of the sonata groups after Brahms comes close to MacDowell's cumulative achievement. Until Skryabin. Later Bax, etc. Would that there were a complete recording of all four by Sandra Carlock.

Meanwhile, I'd be delighted to get your immensely informed take on other sonata groups of the late 19th century that I have undoubtedly overlooked.

[eschiss1]

You do me too much of a compliment, and I apologize for rather-an-outburst (erm, syntax, Eric?) ... The name Sandra Carlock is wholly new to me- ah, you mean all four MacDowell sonatas by pianist Sandra Carlock. I thought you meant all four sonatas by composer Sandra Carlock, and here I was having a "who where when now?"...

(And while I agree about Reinecke's duo sonatas - pity the solo ones all seem to be sonatinas - and am not quite sure how Rheinberger's solo sonatas (I mean the four for piano; the organ ones, e.g. no.8 with its passacaglia, are a different matter entirely...) compare to his duo efforts several at least of which are quite good (if not groundbreaking - well, still the two violin sonatas really are ... erm... anyway)...

Which reminds me in turn of poor Elgar, left somewhere in the back of this thread for which I apologize, though my current unfamiliarity with the Sea Pieces leaves me little choice about that.  I'm thinking I'll enjoy them (in their basic form) very much, though; after a point where my enjoyment of Elgar was maybe mostly limited to the string quartet, cello concerto and a few other works, this has definitely expanded out. (I blame a actually rather good Elgar anniversary article in BBC Music Magazine, and then listening to some of his part songs, for an important part of that - songs like There is Sweet Music and Owls surprised me greatly...)

[eschiss1]

Hrm. I was wrong about the Liszt and Brahms anyway; Liszt finished the B minor in February 1853, Brahms finished his 3rd sonata one presumes later that year...

[Alan Howe]

Ahem, we're miles off topic here...

[sdtom]

Not one of my favorite sea pieces either. But if you would like to talk about Sainton or Glazunov sea poems those are two of my favorites "The Island" and "The Sea"
Tom

I agree Alan. Let's go back to what you forum members think about the Sainton and Glazunov works.
Tom

[kolaboy]

In the context of discussing MacDowell I really don't think of them at all. However - on their own merits - I prefer the Glazunov over the Sainton.

[sdtom]

I think that the umbrella of sea pieces orchestrated doesn't say this is a piece about Macdowell but he could be included. I have a soft spot for the Sainton piece and its use in the Moby Dick film.

Tom

[Dave]

Not one of my favorite sea pieces either. But if you would like to talk about Sainton or Glazunov sea poems those are two of my favorites "The Island" and "The Sea"
Tom

They're my favorite also: works of genius in my book. Quite recently though, I've been getting myself familiarized with a a very fine Finnish symphony, the Third Symphony of Kallervo Tuukkanen "The Sea." It's quite a sleeper upon first hearing, but it grows nicely on me upon subsequent hearings. Also worthy of mentioning is of course Vaughan Williams's First Symphony, Bridge's "The Sea," Bax's 4th & 7th Symphonies, Atterberg's "The River', and Alfven's 4th.

The Tuukkanen can be found here:
http://www.amazon.com/Symphony-No-Sea-Violin-Concerto/dp/B000005IGS/ref=sr_1_sc_2?s=music&ie=UTF8&qid=1381269088&sr=1-2-spell&keywords=tuukanen